| Posted by prashant1979, 04-25-2009, 11:59 AM | | I want to know what are the things to be considered while taking up Server Management so that I am not at a loss while managing servers of customers. I always end up helping too much to the customers and at the end of the day, they still complain of poor services if there is even a small issue, though not created by me, but if it takes more time to resolve. What do other companies do in case of server management? Can you experts guide me?
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| Posted by rileez, 04-25-2009, 01:36 PM | | Its best to have a good set of terms written in a contract for customers like that. I mean having in there about you not being responsible if something does not go as planned due to the client already messing up the server. However, if your doing this as a business you should have the knowledge to fix dependency issues and stuff related in that nature. Not saying that you are having issues in that area though.
What other type of issues are you having?
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| Posted by UNIXy, 04-25-2009, 01:59 PM | | Perhaps you're not fully communicating with your customers.
If something takes too long to fix, take the time to update them 15mns after starting (and also before starting). then update them as you attempt to resolve the issue. If your explanation of the issue at hand makes sense to them they will be considerate. But you have to gauge for their technical knowledge so as to not overload them with too much information. Keep it short and to the point. Chances are they're not savvy so explain things to them in simple terms.
And if you can't fix something, be up front about it and tell them you're still attempting to fix it. Hopefully I touched on one of the issues that you're facing.
Best
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| Posted by ServerManagement, 04-25-2009, 04:07 PM | | Try discussing the complaints with your customers to see what the issue is, and what they want done and how it can be corrected. That's the only way you'll find out what's going on.
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| Posted by rileez, 04-25-2009, 04:38 PM | | And also maybe have the client perform a survey for something like 5 or 10% off. There are some sites out there where you can setup surveys for free and come with text fields for more customer input. I think that could fine tune your business a little bit.
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| Posted by prashant1979, 04-26-2009, 01:11 AM | | I think you have all mistaken by what I meant. I want to know if I take up server management for a company, what should be my area of responsibilities. The issue is that the customers also expect me to fix their scripts as the server is managed. One of my customers does heavy mass emailing and if the IP gets blacklisted, he expects me to find him a solution, but he is not ready to stop mass emailing. The issue is there are lots of small hosting providers here who do everything for the customer and the customer does not accept a NO from me. What should be my Terms and Conditions for server management?
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| Posted by AcuNett, 04-28-2009, 01:36 PM | | Are you a server management provider? You simply tell them what they are asking is not possible. There is not much you can do with clients like that. If he mass mails, his IP will be blacklisted, simple as that. This is likened to him playing extremely loud music, and saying "you better make sure the police don't come." Well, there's simply nothing you can do to prevent that.
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| Posted by prashant1979, 04-29-2009, 02:18 AM | | I am a dedicated server and hosting provider and have customers buying dedicated servers from my company, but lack technical expertise to manage the same. Hence, I want to know what kind of management other companies provide. What are the things covered in the management and what is the AUP usually of such companies?
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| Posted by hiabhilash, 04-30-2009, 05:04 AM | | Prashant, we do pretty much everything For a dedicated server customer which is not a hosting provider himself, there isn't much to do, especially if he has cPanel And with proper server monitoring place to monitor his services and server, things would be easy. And with the customer who does mass mailing, if it is legit mails, you can talk with the major ISP providers and after a series of tiring talks, you can get yourself white listed.
I spoke to a WHTer a few days back, who sends out millions of emails and still ensuring that every mails got to the inbox of major mail providers like gmail, hotmail and yahoo. Just kudos to him though!!!
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| Posted by prashant1979, 04-30-2009, 06:02 AM | | I think for solicited emails, there should not be much trouble. But what if somebody sends unsolicited bulk emails?
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| Posted by eacollin, 04-30-2009, 11:44 AM | | If you don't provide Server management but sell the Managed Servers why not outsource the management there are lots of companys that would love the extra income on these board, form a partnership with a Sever management company.
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| Posted by jphilipson, 05-01-2009, 12:45 AM | | You need to write up policy documents describing exactly what is included if you are selling "managed" services. The term is extremely loose and open to interpretation. I don't sell managed servers, I just do admin work, so I'll do just about anything you have mentioned for an hourly price, fix spam issues and scripts etc. However, you are selling a managed server and should have clear policies on what is covered and what is not. Managing scripts and fixing spam issues is something you should get paid extra for as it goes beyond the normal scope.
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| Posted by prashant1979, 05-01-2009, 02:23 AM | | You have exactly understood what I have been asking for. I want to know which policies should be set and what other server management companies include in their policies for server management.
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| Posted by jphilipson, 05-01-2009, 03:06 AM | | I would visit the websites of other managed server providers and read through their documents. Most of them have very clear rules. Management is for server and OS issues only. Most only support servers as long as they conform to original specs. Most companies will not support custom software installed after provisioning; they will just support the server as it was provisioned, and custom changes can even void that management contract. For instance take a look at The Planet's SLA, http://www.theplanet.com/legal/ There is nothing that is left un-covered. It is a clear contract and there is nothing to be debated.
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| Posted by Nick Keefen, 05-10-2009, 04:21 PM | | managed dedicated servers are really different from just dedicated servers. The costs are really different too. Do you really have the capabilities to provide full management?
As for spammers - disable them as soon as you find them. if you think their server wasn't hacked and they were spamming intentionally - throw them out of your window. And add a notice like "we teach spammers to fly" to your ToS. In the long run, your reputation will benefit greatly and you'll have more orders coming in if you keep away from dirty clients.
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| Posted by mugo, 05-10-2009, 08:29 PM | | If you allow mass emailing, and he continually get's the IP blacklisted, he is SPAMing, at least to some extent. If you allow that activity on your network, then you just have to deal with it. If you don't allow it, explain to him he is SPAMing, or running his list in a manner that looks to outside servers that he is spamming.
Actual opt-in mailling lists don't have many issues with IPs being blocked, if the server and method are setup correctly, with tools such as SPF, DKIM, rDNS and hostname set correctly, etc.
I know a person that basically is in the same place as you seem to be, and it comes from him not being able to say "NO" to a client, or confront them about what is and isn't acceptable. You just need to define "management" very finely, and then stick by your guns, otherwise customers will run all over you. They are basically getting free support for something that they very well know would be expensive otherwise, and coming at you like "you owe them something" is apparently working.
You can't run a business very effeciently if you are contantly having all your time consumed by piddly script problems that are not your issue in the first place, and you should explain that in a nice way, and offer a few third party programmers you know that could help them out, should they care *hire* them.
Just be firm. They would have a very hard time getting someone else to hand-hold them, and they all probably know that, they are just taking advantage of you, as it seems like you probably always try to help, even though it's not really your issue in the first place.
Good luck to you!
Last edited by mugo; 05-10-2009 at 08:32 PM.
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| Posted by prashant1979, 05-11-2009, 05:54 AM | | I have totally agreed with you. I have a customer who is moving out though I provided him the best support. It was only after I started saying NO to jobs that were practically his, he booked a server with another provider. And now his guys are facing difficulty in handling the issues as the new provider is very firm in server management policies. The bottom line is all the good service providers will stick to their SLAs and if you want good service then follow their SLAs. I have listed down a few activities that my people have been doing for managed servers
1. Create domains and mail domains
2. Create mail users and aliases
3. Create mail filters and manage antispam
4. Create/Delete databases
5. Remove the blacklisted IPs from RBLs.
6. Install all the software which the customer require on his/her server.
7. Manage backup of the data and databases and when a backup required by customers is corrupt, they blame the quality of support.
8. Troubleshoot mail delivery problems
9. Troubleshoot scripting issues.
10. Communicate with companies like yahoo and hotmail to whitelist IPs and domains.
11. Maintenance of security of the server.
12. Reboot servers/restart services when necessary.
13. Troubleshoot mail problems at the customers local email clients through VNC and Team Viewer.
14. Monitor server loads.
Can you tell me which ones of the above should be my responsibilities and which ones should not?
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| Posted by jNive, 05-11-2009, 05:42 PM | | 1. Create domains and mail domains
2. Create mail users and aliases
3. Create mail filters and manage antispam
4. Create/Delete databases
5. Remove the blacklisted IPs from RBLs.
6. Install all the software which the customer require on his/her server.
7. Manage backup of the data and databases and when a backup required by customers is corrupt, they blame the quality of support.
8. Troubleshoot mail delivery problems
9. Troubleshoot scripting issues.
10. Communicate with companies like yahoo and hotmail to whitelist IPs and domains.
11. Maintenance of security of the server. [Kernel and core server daemons - not in relation to installed scripts & custom code]
12. Reboot servers/restart services when necessary.
13. Troubleshoot mail problems at the customers local email clients through VNC and Team Viewer.
14. Monitor server loads.
Legend:
Grey: Possibly - depending on the extent of the management and whether you are providing OS Software/Deamon configuration & troubleshooting
Green: Generally these should be included
Red: Unless you are being hired as an actual System Administrator or being paid per-incident - these should not be included in any 'server management' package - since these are not issues caused by the OS, hardware or other standard configuration - these are operational, usability or abuse-related aftermaths as a result of how they are using or configuring the software they have installed.
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| Posted by nibb, 05-12-2009, 01:12 AM | | Dont worry about it, he will come back to you.
I had a similar issue with 2 or 3 clients when they expect you to manage everything. Installing scripts, fixing security holes, babysitting his websites and looking why his emails has problems.
I was working 12 to 16 hours straigh for 1 client.
It was because like some others said I did not had rules. Its a big mystake to sell Managed service without a TOS or rules about what is included. So I just accepted the clients and did not knew where the limit was, and of course he just abused.
So I just terminated his contract. I told him he should look another company. Fine. 3 months later phone was ringing. Same client similar issue on another company. He went to several. Nobody could give him the management he wanted for the price he paid. I signed him again but with rules. He tried to break the rules or asked please to solve this and that, so I terminated his account again and said him he should never come back, ever.
He made me lost over 1500$ in management, and did not paid anything.
If your clients is getting blacklisted its better you terminated it. He is doing spam from your network and you can be hold liable if you manage his server for him and allow this. You should have a straigh policy about spam and terminate his account with a fee for the trouble.
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| Posted by nibb, 05-12-2009, 01:18 AM | | I think Jnive has it very clear and I agree.
Things not caused by the hardware or software you provided should not be included. Anything that is to personal like VNC or phone support or which can takes to long should be billed extra. Example, if its not included in the package you should charge extra. Not to much but its a way to limit the client abusing you and requesting to much things.
The problem is with software installations.
You said here that installing software for clients should be included. But what happens when this software modifies other softwares or the OS? Should be included as well?
There is the problem as well then you install something for the client he expects you to support it after. They dont have a problem with even paying you for installing a software but then they start to request support about the software and if there are problems with it they say "you installed it"
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| Posted by mugo, 05-12-2009, 01:25 AM | | I've had very similar customers, and some I did take back, with NEW rules, most stuck by it. Some never learn.
One big consideration for OP: If any of your users ARE spamming, there are basically two kinds of lists you may bet on.
1 - A Blackhole/RBL-ish list, for servers that are misconfigured, SMTP has been compromised (open relay), etc. Usually, these blackholes are easy(er) to get off of, because it's based on something wrong with the server. You fix, request a retest, if it is fixed (HELO domain correct / No Open SMTP Relay, etc), they remove you.
2- Your network is tagged as a SPAM HOUSE, either a bonified SPAM source, or a network that just doesn't have an AUP/TOS against Spam. If your network / domain is ever tagged as a Spam House (origin of SPAM) you will NEVER get off of it, and whats' more, this is not just for email, networks and domains on these lists are also added to lists that commercial content filters subscribe to, used heavily by corporate / educational entities, etc. (even programs like CyberSitter), which means users can't send or receive ANY traffic to or from your network, including WWW.
No 2 is one of the most pressing reasons you must strictly enforce SPAM policy on your network. One bad entry, cause by one wayward Spamming customer can literally make or break your business.
Last edited by mugo; 05-12-2009 at 01:30 AM.
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| Posted by prashant1979, 05-12-2009, 11:04 AM | | I would like to know what activities should be supported in Mail Server Management.
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| Posted by nibb, 05-12-2009, 01:36 PM | | You could explain a bit more?
It depends on mail server and config.
Charging by user account is not a bad idea. The more accounts the more work.
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| Posted by hostquality, 05-14-2009, 08:57 AM | | valid example?
http://www.hostton.com/managed.html
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| Posted by hostquality, 05-21-2009, 10:40 AM | | another one
http://www.melbourneit.com.au/cc/ded...lid=rm#compare
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| Posted by prashant1979, 05-23-2009, 11:40 AM | | It gives only the dedicated server responsibilities summary. It does not give details of their responsibilities in case of a managed server or may be they don't provide managed servers.
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| Posted by nibb, 05-23-2009, 11:47 AM | | Dont just take a list from another provider or you can be in a huge problem when someone orders your service.
If you take for example a list that says
"Mail server configuration and management"
You will end up with having to deal with any mail server, regarless, if its Exim, Exchange, Qmail, etc. And that includes making configurations and adding inboxes, auto replies, etc for the client. The client will asume it includes everything since the point is to general.
You can put the points in the agreement or publish them on the service list. But make clear points about whats included and whats not.
If you really want to fully manage them they you dont need the point and terms, you just handle everything the client requests. But if that is what you want i would not do a general managed service. I would split it by service. For example "Fully Managed Mail server", Fully managed Web Server" etc. And your sure are not going to do that for pennies a month.
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| Posted by jNive, 05-25-2009, 07:59 PM | | Also if doing an complete management of the server, then simply specify that the management includes a particular amount of billable hours per month, with any additional time payable per hour.
Billable time does not include time you spend researching an issue or communicating with a client - it only includes time used actively working on or troubleshooting the server
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| Posted by prashant1979, 05-26-2009, 01:36 AM | | I support only Smartermail on Windows and Exim with Cpanel/WHM, Qmail with Plesk on Linux and Postfix in normal Linux servers without any CP.
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