| Posted by dkitchen, 10-19-2006, 05:44 PM | | I was reading Linux Magazine and found this ad on the back...
http://www.imgarchive.org/uploads/83b8959d0d.jpg
I'm not usually one to bash competitors, but I think this advert by Rackspace UK was pretty low. We all know they suffered quite a significant amount of downtime (many hours) earlier this year due to a fiber cut.
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| Posted by layer0, 10-19-2006, 05:47 PM | | lol, not a surprise, Rackspace is pretty shady. I asked their live chat people about the 100% uptime once and they had no idea (or claimed to, anyways) about the LON2 outage (4h, 45m I think it was).
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| Posted by avythe, 10-19-2006, 06:07 PM | | I actually thought it was pretty funny because it looks like they're judges for something and they're all giving Rackspace a "zero" out of 10
I also found it amusing that the ad is horribly written...perhaps they should invest some money into hiring people who can speak speak English properly.
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| Posted by Scott.Mc, 10-19-2006, 06:49 PM | | You bring up a good point on that ad, it's very mis-leading and well is blatent false advertising because of the 4 hour outage they had just recently.
-Scott
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| Posted by Rochen, 10-19-2006, 06:56 PM | | Luckily the Advertising Standards Authority does uphold issues like this if a complaint is received. I remember a couple of years ago Fasthosts ran an advertisement claiming to have "more bandwidth than any other UK host" which wasn't true and the complaint was upheld.
- Chris
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| Posted by Cirtex, 10-19-2006, 07:32 PM | | I was given the same impression actually, instead of 0 downtime
Personally I do not see any problems with the Ad as long as rackspace can backup their 100% Uptime with some statistics/facts.
Cheers
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| Posted by layer0, 10-19-2006, 08:08 PM | | But they can't
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| Posted by Jame$, 10-19-2006, 08:12 PM | | I get an email advertising Rackspace every week, (SPAM?) I asked for a quote once - would that be why?
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| Posted by PixelManual, 10-19-2006, 10:46 PM | | Why am I not surprised.... Anyone going to contact the ASA about the advert?
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| Posted by Aussie Bob, 10-19-2006, 11:07 PM | | Someone should report that ad. You can't promote zero downtime like that, when you've just had a very public outage that resulted in downtime.
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| Posted by Aussie Bob, 10-19-2006, 11:12 PM | | I don't see your post as a bash. A host is acting deliberatley deceptively, and you're bringing that to the attention of the hosting community. No bashing there.
They cannot continue to ethically and legally promote that they have had zero network downtime, when this is not the case.
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| Posted by carlgm, 10-19-2006, 11:24 PM | | Anyone else notice the following error?:
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| Posted by avythe, 10-20-2006, 02:12 AM | | They've pretty much proven that they have a fairly blatant disregard for proper use of the English language
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| Posted by dkitchen, 10-20-2006, 02:47 AM | | FYI I have reported it to the ASA, I'll let you all know the outcome.
Dan
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| Posted by Aussie Bob, 10-20-2006, 03:17 AM | | Thanks Dan.
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| Posted by BillyT, 10-23-2006, 06:51 AM | | layer0 bashing rackspace? this is so... out of character... -not
Anyway, all great companies become targets wether it's jealousy, competition, etc. I've basically tried all the top players in the biz for many sites and am now on rackspace. Bash as much as you like but I've had 100% uptime since using rackspace and I've had service unlike anything I've experienced anywhere (hosts or any businesses for that matter). Bash or not rackspace delivers and that gets under some people's skin big time..
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| Posted by RossH, 10-23-2006, 09:55 AM | | I'm quite suprised myself that rackspace would run such and ad after such a public downtime, however we have to remember that the marketing folks hardly ever talk to the people actually running the networks....
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| Posted by jerett, 10-23-2006, 10:21 AM | | My only guess is this ad was already sent and waiting print before the downtime occured.
Okay- throw tomatos .... NOW!
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| Posted by gone-afk, 10-23-2006, 11:32 AM | | No doubt their "uptime" applies only to their network and what they have direct control over, not their suppliers. Unfortunate.
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| Posted by TRIBOLIS, 10-23-2006, 11:33 AM | | As a designer.. That campaign gives the strong message to the readers who are reading in the tech magazine where Rackspace placed their ad such as Linux as Dan mentioned. It tells readers to sign up with Rackspace or check out their services. If they lie, do something!
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| Posted by BillyT, 10-23-2006, 05:39 PM | | So why is this a lie again? Their network has not had any downtime. This is ridiculous. I mean what's next for the bash rackspace olympics?
"OMG!!! MY NEIGHBOR CUT THE FIBER TO MY HOUSE WHILE PUTTING IN A FENCE POST, AFTER THAT I COULD NOT GET TO ANY RACKSPACE SITES FOR 8HRS, THEY WERE TOTALLY DOWN!"
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| Posted by layer0, 10-23-2006, 05:43 PM | | Wow, you're smart.
The single fiber provider connecting Rackspace (not others in the UK) had an outage. If Rackspace had multiple fiber providers they would NOT have had this problem. The downtime effected THEM. Residential ISPs, BT, etc. weren't where the trouble was. I'm not sure how much more clear you want this to get.
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| Posted by PixelManual, 10-23-2006, 06:51 PM | | I'm loving all of the arguements from those who do not even know what's going on (Billy, David...).
David, way to be a one-post wonder and criticize companies such as RazorBlue, which I have been a customer of and love how it, as Layer0 said, just works. Perhaps you should spend a little more time reading and less posting.
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| Posted by layer0, 10-23-2006, 07:01 PM | | Thanks for adding some clue to this thread!
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| Posted by Aussie Bob, 10-23-2006, 07:48 PM | | I meant someone from the same country should report that ad.
But you've gone and hurt my feelings now.
Right, you're off my Christmas card list.
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| Posted by h4wk, 10-23-2006, 09:05 PM | | LOL......................................................
good one
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| Posted by BaseOneDavid, 10-24-2006, 06:32 AM | | ok ok - time to make amends - I've had a good laugh, it's been great.
to:
Layer0 (or from your last post, Layer-ooooooooooo! - joke - calm down man) Yous and mees are probably coming with similar loyalties - you're fighting the corner for Dan and his 5blade contour razorblue, and me - I'm fighting the corner for one of the best companies to work for... and one of the best companies to work at in the UK.
to:
Aussie Bob - sorry - thanks for taking it so well - love you guys - my sister is over there now - she's got mousy hair and 2 kids - say hello if you bump into her?
to:
Mohamoud - loving you too - thanks.
Just to clear up any suspicions that I'm pretending to be someone I'm not - I work at the agency who does all Rackspace advertising and marketing.
From our point of view, they're one of the best companies to work for, for the reason that it's about as far away from creating a marketing gloss or spinning a lie with them as is humanly possible.
There's a marketing line that says 'a truth well told' - and that's hopefully applicable in this case.
We've found from working very closely with them, that their internal culture is totally true to their word, they live and breath managed hosting & are driven by providing their 'fanatical support'. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole company cried one big salty tear over the downtime - they will probably wear black armbands to remember that time forever.
I do feel that it would be a real pity if the claim for 0downtime could not continue to be used, as like I said before, the fault was not theirs. Maybe we could add some 'acts of God' rider to it like insurance companies do?
That's all from me - take care.
<>
Last edited by anon-e-mouse; 10-24-2006 at 09:24 PM.
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| Posted by Karl Austin, 10-24-2006, 06:40 AM | | Think you need to understand it from a networking PoV, the fiber fault maybe wasn't their fault, but not having the redundancy in place, was their fault - When you're running a service, the buck stops with you, especially when you make bold claims like Rackspace do. If you have downtime, be it a router blowing up, three routers blowing up, a fiber being cut etc. the buck stops with you. If it affects your nice uptime stats, then so be it - If you start adding in disclaimers, riders etc. then those stats mean nothing.
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| Posted by Aussie Bob, 10-24-2006, 09:16 AM | | Wow, I saw her shopping the other night. It's a small world indeed.
Ahah!
They're certianly a great company. I have a LOT of respect for RS, and they're successful at what they do, deservedly so. They're a shining light in the sometimes dark and seedy world of hosting. BUT, they did have a rather public outage (downtime) and therefore they cannot ethically claim they have "0 Downtime" in the past.
And while you're here who was the Wally who came up with that ad anyway? My first reaction was they scored 0/10, with those judges. The "0" there is a huge negative, and not a positive, so what's the logic behind using that?
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| Posted by UH-Matt, 10-24-2006, 10:33 PM | | It makes people stop and look at the Ad... regardless of if you think the score is good or bad, it makes you stop and think and possibly read it.
If it was showing 10, 10, 10, 10 then you would likely breeze past thinking its just another regular advert.
I think it works quite well.
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| Posted by Commit1 Anthony, 10-25-2006, 04:00 PM | | He does have a point there, however we are coming off topic regarding the false advertisement being promoted here. I'm sure most members here respect rackspace as an ethical managed providor, however "luring" potential clients in with false claims definitely conflicts their reputation. As far as the flyers being printed before the downtime happened, I am sure they have had enough time to make a decision on postponing or stopping the release. My 2 cents..
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| Posted by cheyenne1212, 10-25-2006, 08:36 PM | | I think I've read most of this thread...my understanding so far is that they had an outage in 1 Datacenter?
1 out of how many DC's?
Cause say if they have 5 and only 1 has suffered downtime thats still pretty damn good. Besides they've said they are going to fix the issue that they had by bringing in another FIber provider on a different route so their is truly geographically diverse paths.
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| Posted by mripguru, 10-25-2006, 09:07 PM | | Yes - but they claim to have no downtime, period (contrary to other evidence stored here at WHT) and by their own admission.
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| Posted by Steven, 10-25-2006, 09:57 PM | | 1 datacenter.. does not matter they claim they have had no downtime, thats like me claiming i drive the speed limit its not true
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| Posted by cheyenne1212, 10-25-2006, 11:57 PM | | Not disagreeing with you guys.
Just saying for as many DC's as they have and that being the only downtime they've ever had, makes them a pretty good company in my book. Eventually everything comes back to bite you in the ***...even if your the most prepared person/company in the world. And thats what happened to them at that DC.
I don't think that would severely impact that them.
I personally had no idea they ever had downtime, which is what they're probably counting on.
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| Posted by PhireFast, 10-26-2006, 01:08 AM | | Ugh. Big fan of rackspace, but ugh...
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| Posted by borghunn, 10-26-2006, 01:17 AM | | 1 downtime != 0 downtime
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| Posted by Aussie Bob, 10-26-2006, 01:37 AM | | I'm wondering how this issue is even debatable. They had downtime, therefore they can't promote "0 downtime". It's as simple as that. They're a shining light in the hosting business, but you can't say you've had "0 downtime" when you've had downtime. This aint politics.
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| Posted by Rapid-Host.com, 10-26-2006, 02:16 AM | | Where did they have downtime? On the UK network or a NA network?
It makes a difference if they are advertising in the UK for their UK services, a NA downtime would not matter. I haven't followed their UK very much but I know they had a downtime in the US recently.
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| Posted by AceWeb, 10-26-2006, 02:26 AM | | Exactly! Some read it as those who make news of this mean that the company is bad. It is not the case and the company has a good record. Nonetheless, the claim of 0 downtime is false - no matter how the marketing folks want to spin it.
The one downtime does not make a company bad, nor the fact that the downtime was only at one of the DC's - that is not the point of the argument.
The fact is that this AD is false, wrong, dishonest, misleading, and deceptive. That is what is casting shadow and doubt on this company.
I'd go for a company who would say 'x' downtime in 'y' years than a falsely AD that says 0 downtimes in 5 years. As I said this ad is wrong and casts a significant distrust for a reputable company.
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| Posted by Rapid-Host.com, 10-26-2006, 02:28 AM | | Is possible as well that at the time of the ad being submitted it was true?
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| Posted by AceWeb, 10-26-2006, 02:42 AM | | The AD says for it is for "All of our customers" not for 100% uptime for the UK customers.
The downtime in question was in July so they could have pulled it, but that does not matter because that is not their excuse. The excuse from the marketing guy is that "the fault was not theirs.'' This is false claim.
Are they providing power supply fan uptime? If so that is a different story. That would be great if everyone can base their uptime on the power supply fan runtime and say 100% all the time.
The fact is that the AD is for network uptime.
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| Posted by mdrussell, 10-26-2006, 04:22 AM | | I'm struggling to agree with that Rackspace is a shining light. You visit their website and the outsourced vultures they employ immediately pounce. Their email tactics come close to spam, ie I did not give them permission to email me every couple of weeks with the latest special offer.
The community has obviously identified the issues with their marketing regime and I won't even get started on their little man syndrome on legal issues.
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| Posted by AceWeb, 10-26-2006, 04:32 AM | | Hello Matt! Have not seen you online in a while.
Anyway, your points may be true, I do not know. I was mainly speaking on their reputation as a high quality network provider (uptime wise), which still tends to be the case. I cannot speak about their CS and other issues that they may/may not have.
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| Posted by Rapid-Host.com, 10-26-2006, 09:57 AM | | I agree that it's a ballsy move to run a ad like that, considering failure to achieve 0 downtime can now be considered missrepresentation and require them to refund a lot of money.
However if Rackspace has their UK operations as a seperate business, with seperate licences, then they can legally say that they have 0 downtime and not be missrepresenting themselves if it's true.
There is always more then what you see on face value, and I have a hard time imaging a company spending large amounts of money on advertising and not at least cover their backs.
But companies have made bigger mistakes in the past.
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| Posted by dkitchen, 10-26-2006, 06:29 PM | | Thanks for the sarcasm, much appreciated.
After reading through your paragraph the only thing I could conclude was that you think they should continue to use a false statement to advertise their products and services.
Well good luck to you because myself and others around here will make sure that you fail, and that legal bodies intervene. I truly hope you are aware of media law, and the potential penalties your company and Rackspace may have to entail because of your desire to speak what is clearly far from the truth.
-D
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| Posted by s.h.a.zz.y, 10-29-2006, 11:50 AM | | Not one bit surprised to be honest - I used to have a-lot of respect for rackspace, however having dealt with them at a business level and seeing first-hand there shady business practice it does not surprise me.
It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this advertisement.
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| Posted by w00ts!te, 10-29-2006, 12:14 PM | | Lol. So true.
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| Posted by zetec452, 10-30-2006, 12:12 PM | | The advert is most likely true as they do not mention which part of there business or which data centre has had 100% uptime for 5 years. The advert could could even relate to one part of there network.
It's cleaver advertising in which they aren't lying but aren't telling the full truth either.
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| Posted by Karl Austin, 10-30-2006, 12:16 PM | | Not really, as if it doesn't mention it, then your average person on the street will take that to mean the whole of the network, full stop, in which case it is being deceitful.
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| Posted by AceWeb, 10-30-2006, 12:22 PM | | JonRohan,
If I say 0 of my clients are unhappy, this reffers to ALL of my clients, not just Joe Blow in Alaska, unless I say '0 clients are unhappy in Alaska.'
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| Posted by domotre, 10-30-2006, 12:45 PM | | RS Advertising is only this one ( They tried to get new clients and I think that they did it )
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| Posted by zetec452, 10-30-2006, 12:46 PM | | I agree with you both (Karl and AceWeb).
Like I said, its cleaver advertising. It could be compared to Tiscali's unlimited broadband adverts. Its advertised as unlimited but of course with the exception of fair use and traffic shaping, making it limited in some form. To a technical person its a complete lie but to Mrs smith sitting at home watching ITV its a great offer.
I don't agree with it, but I can see how the advert works. Rackspace will be able to justify it in one way or another.
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| Posted by domotre, 10-30-2006, 12:51 PM | | Folk:
To be clear, Advertising is the activity of attracting public attention to a product or business, as by paid announcements in the print, broadcast, or electronic media and They do it again
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| Posted by AceWeb, 10-30-2006, 12:58 PM | | domotre,
That is if one thinks that negative publicity is still 'good' publicity. It works in some cases, just not in this case. In this case, they send the message is of deception and dishonesty. To me, it is not a company that I would do business with or recommend it to anyone.
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| Posted by zetec452, 10-30-2006, 01:02 PM | | Again, I agree but its only because we are in the business.
To a business exec or somebody who is foreign to the hosting business the advert is very good. Its going to do its job, get people to read what they are about and give them a call.
Why would rackspace be worried about people like you and I being offended by the advert? We are never going to use them.
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| Posted by domotre, 10-30-2006, 01:14 PM | | Yes, but RS marketing is focused in another type of clients and you and me and maybe others WHTalkers probably they never would go with RS for many reason like costs, support, technical skill, service, etc, but I think with this AD they targeted another type of potential costumers, they don't play in the same field that Layertech, liquidweb for e.g.
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| Posted by Revex Nation, 11-02-2006, 06:37 PM | | Been with rackspace UK since June 2005, during this time we have had one case of planned downtime (we had out server moved). Hence in our eyes their claim is correct. Authough I believe they have more than one DC now.
http://host-tracker.com/web-site-mon...g-stats/89296/
While not hard evidence, its all I have.
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| Posted by John Stevens, 11-25-2006, 09:56 PM | | Did you hear back regarding your notification to the advertising board?
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| Posted by layer0, 11-25-2006, 10:58 PM | | outage was at London 2, so I guess not your DC.
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| Posted by TheDigitalFreeway, 11-26-2006, 03:29 AM | | wow, this really is low...
http://cp1.hostedhere.net/suspended.page/
This Account Has Been Suspended Please contact the billing/support department as soon as possible.
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| Posted by John Stevens, 11-26-2006, 09:40 AM | | I dont know why??
http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/lookup...ive.org&type=A
http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/lookup...ere.net&type=A
http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=65.254.38.202
Maybe the person didnt pay their Global Net Access account and were therefore suspended?
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| Posted by layer0, 11-26-2006, 10:31 AM | | A suspension by GNAX would likely make the server inaccessible. I doubt they'd use the WHM suspended page.
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| Posted by dkitchen, 11-26-2006, 04:52 PM | | It appears that the free image hosting site I used has gone offline, I will post another copy of the image later.
With regards to the investigation, last I heard it was ongoing and they were looking into the downtime that occurred (requiring proof).
Dan
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| Posted by lxserverdirect, 11-28-2006, 01:04 PM | | heard alot about these people and must they the reports haven't been good
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| Posted by John Stevens, 11-28-2006, 08:42 PM | | Look I think the ad went to press before the downtime outage and going by the posts those affected were duly compensated.
I dont know what the big deal is... Interesting to see what the advertising standards board concur and stipulate that this ad isnt used again.
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| Posted by amex, 11-28-2006, 11:31 PM | | Was the whole thing with this that this datacenter "LON2" is not owned by rackspace?
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| Posted by John Stevens, 12-01-2006, 02:33 PM | | I dont think Rackspace owns the datacenters in the UK. I think they own the datacenters in the US however.
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| Posted by layer0, 12-01-2006, 03:16 PM | | No. They've had a nearly 5-hr outage at LON2, but they claim 100% uptime.
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| Posted by lockbull, 12-01-2006, 07:20 PM | | It's entirely possible this ad is true. Rackspace UK may be a separate company from the U.S. operations, in which the case claiming 100% network uptime is not misleading if this ad was placed by the U.S. operation and they did indeed have 100% network uptime. Linux Magazine is a U.S. based publication after all (San Francisco actually); I know several of the employees there as we have an office very close to theirs in SOMA. I don't see what the big hubbub is here; this is a U.S. based magazine catering to a U.S. readership. If I pick up a German car magazine in the U.S. and see a Mercedes advertised with a particular feature set at some MSRP in euros only to find out that even after conversion the MSRP is a lot higher here in the U.S. and the feature set is different, should I file a complaint about false advertising?
**Ignore this rant if there actually is a different Linux Magazine in the UK; I'm not sure**
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| Posted by dkitchen, 12-01-2006, 09:38 PM | | It was Linux Magazine in the UK .
Dan
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