| Posted by borghunn, 02-05-2006, 06:48 PM | | I was thinking to get my own server. But I'am not able to take care of it (I don't really know Linux at all), so the only way to solve this problem is to hire somebody else. My first question is haw much do i have to pay for a FULLY management solution (linux+Cpanel, php, mysql), 24/7 monitoring, proactive,...? Do you have some examples, some good companys? Have you had bad experiences whit such company? For me it looks like a huge step, and I don't want to be sorry after.
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| Posted by LinuxMaster, 02-05-2006, 07:48 PM | | rackspace.com is a fully managed solution. If you search google you can find managed providers but read their TOS for their definition of managed. If this is for a 'business venture' of yours you should know they won't run your business for you. There are a lot of mistakes when people are defining the word managed so I just wanted to clear that up.
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| Posted by DME-Geoff, 02-05-2006, 08:01 PM | | You should go with a host that offers fully managed servers or seek management solutions from rack911 or platinumservermanagement.
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| Posted by Lpal-Patrick, 02-05-2006, 08:51 PM | | www.axishost.com
www.hostingzoom.com
Those are all fully managed, no root access.
AxisHost is updating their dedicated server page, email them for a quote.
I am with HostingZoom and i recommend them.
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| Posted by layer0, 02-05-2006, 10:04 PM | | If you want the most reliable solution, I would suggest getting the management and server from the same provider - rather than using a 3rd party for management. www.liquidweb.com is an example of a company that offers full management bundled with their servers. AxisHost, like mentioned above is another. If I were to choose one, they would be on my list.
HTH,
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| Posted by Tina J, 02-05-2006, 10:09 PM | | Yeah, we're in the middle of updating our pricing list - so everything on the dedicated server page is just a placeholder (just lists our generic bare-bones server right now). If you need something specific, I can give a quote.
--Tina
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| Posted by ayksolutions, 02-06-2006, 12:28 AM | | I did not know that platinumservermanagement was proactive. They only do something if you ask them. If you want someone that is truly proactive and patches bugs as well as applies updates as they come out, check out www.got-management.com They do everything for you short of installing your applications for you. It is not $30/month like PSM, but its well worth it.
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| Posted by Corptex, 02-06-2006, 04:03 AM | | No, PSM is not proactive. But not that much needs pro-active attention, really. I haven't needed it at all. I had one bug, but we both found it the same time, so, other than that, I'm not sure how they handle bugs and patches.
borghunn;
However, I really think the idea worth considering in your situation is to go with a fully-managed server, where your server provider and your management are the same people. Otherwise, you find yourself playing go-between with your DC and SM about things that might be over your head. It can get clumsy and untimely if there's too much burden on you to know what to do. From what I've seen, a pro-active server management goes for about $100/server.
Next I would suggest avoiding larger companies. You want to talk to the same person or two everytime. You want them to know who you are, and know your server. I have two companies below that fit the bill for all this.
Hagane ... no root access? That seems odd to me. I use root access for a few things I need to do quickly and know how to do. I wouldn't want to be kept out of my own server. What reasons do they have for disallowing root access; just so you won't mess anything up on them?
================== Fully-Managed Servers ===================
1) Coast Internet Solutions
I definately recommend www.CoastInc.com - who are breaking off their server division to www.serverbasement.com (yes I know ... the name is somewhat misleading). They have extraordinary value - $299 for a dual-Xeon 2.4 loaded with (2) 80GB drives 1GB ECC, cPanel, Fantastico, RVskin, Urchin Stats, full management. They are not proactive I would say, but their management is most capable, you can simply ask them if they would recommend any work done and they'll let you know without shirking anything, and it's an excellent entry-level price and service. I've been with them and they've done great for me. Tell them I sent you and I can throw in a 3rd 80GB HDD, so you have a system drive, a hosting drive, and a back-up drive. I'm a fanatic about having at least 3 independent HDD systems like that. It's a wonderful storage solution, very inexpensive for very good performance and excellent security (it's more secure than RAID, and two independent drives are faster than RAID in a server situation as well
Basically, I'll have them set up what I have. They harden and secure your server with a nice array, and the DC is highly capable - they took about 15 minutes to bring my server back up from a DDoS attack. You have 3 tiers of support, and everything about your server is known better than you know it. It's an excellent way to go if you're starting up and looking for a dual-Xeon. Lower systems or lower quality systems don't support the multiple drives, and CoastInc uses high-quality server motherboards.
If you look around, an unmanaged empty dual-Xeon goes for that price. CoastInc probably can offer the $299 because most people are offering Xeon 2.6-2.8 and some even 3.0Ghz now (The Planet?). So, they're coming in just under the latest, but with very high-quality servers. They're multi-homed as well, and their add-on hardware is a one-time only hardware+install fee, unlike the monthly fees a lot of providers make you spend. So upgrading another GB ECC RAM is I think $200 flat fee, not $30/month or so, which works out better in the long run.
2) TranquilHosting
Another provider to consider if you don't want a dual-Xeon: I haven't used his servers, but I've used his management service for some jobs that no-one else really was excited about tackling, and he is very good. Without actually using his fullly-managed servers, I'd recommend at least looking at Tranquil Hosting - www.tqhosting.com .
You'll want to speak with Mark Price, the owner, about what you're doing and discuss the server you want. He'll know by what you tell him. The dedicated server page is just an example; I don't know how varied the systems are he has or builds. Also, he's a very easy-going, very nice guy. Someone who also has integrity and you can trust.
Those are two I know about where I think you'd get good service as someone new in the business. When I was new, I did the server provider + separate server management, and it went kind of rough.
I would fully recommend one of these two options for someone starting out, because you'll end up paying probably the same price if you lease at any DC and contract any server management ... if not more.
Also, both of these providers are not large, but are just as capable as larger providers (well I can say that for CoastInc, but I really think so for TranquilHosting, too), so your server will be known to them and you'll speak to the same person mostly. I found this to be much more important than it initially sounds. I would recommend staying away from a larger company where you'd end up dealing with multiple persons. That's not the best situation for when you're starting out. Both these providers will know your server better than you - CoastInc will and I'd just bet that TranquilHosting would, too. You'll get unlimited support from CoastInc - and from TranquilHosting, I'm sure. I haven't talked to Mark Price from Tranquil to know the details of his dedicated server offerings; I've worked with him and I've seen his site, so I have a sense of how he operates.
I hope this helps out. These are some companies I'm enthusiastic about, and the owners of both companies are real people with their heads and their hearts in the right place.
Last edited by Corptex; 02-06-2006 at 04:14 AM.
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| Posted by ChaoticSilence, 02-06-2006, 10:20 AM | | Also take at look at jonesolutions.com, cheap and well worth the money.
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| Posted by swflnetworks, 02-06-2006, 11:12 AM | | I also say go for Jonesolutions.com
Highly recommend.
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| Posted by borghunn, 02-06-2006, 04:45 PM | | Thank you for your answers! As I see, there isn't a "safe mod" for this transition. Rackspace is very expensive, and even if they are really good, i can't take advantage of that because I don't know what to ask. And if I knew, I wouldn't need them, I would do it myself.
I agree that everybody understand somthing else by "fully managed" . That's the reason i ask your experience whit server management, so I'll know what to ask.
The reason I'm thinking to go whit a dedicated server is that now I'm a reseller, I'm offering very good quality solutions, but I've lost many clients because they went to this oversellers that offer 10GB space, 600 GB data for just 5$. This people do not need really more than 200mb of space and 5 Gb of traffic, but they like the sound of that. Haw can I compete whit them, when I get 30GB and 300GB of traffic for 100$? I do not want to oversell, because I want to offer qualitty hosting, and certanly can not compete whit them, since I can't stop somebody to use the entire space and bandwidth, and if he does I will lose mony. Even the hosts that sell me the reseller packages offer better plans for direct buyers. That's crazy. I guess the resellers will be the first victims of price and overselling war .
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| Posted by Corptex, 02-07-2006, 04:34 AM | | Hi borghunn,
I sympathize with everything you've said, and these are major problems in the industry.
The reason the your reseller plan prices nore, is because you'r going to fill it with accounts - unlike the clients of the oersellers who would only use a at most 500MB and 20Gb of your plan. Over-selling is a big part of hosting now, and you can still over-sell without comprimising your customers ... in fact, if you have a server, your customer benefot by judicious overselling, because that makes you company more profitable, and you can offer beter service. As long as any client can use their full quotas at any time, then you are not adversely effecting them *just* because your over-selling a bit.
Although I think it highly intergritous of you to not want to over-sell.
When I mean over-sell, I don' t mean something as drastic as you pointed out. I men that, if you have 30Gb storage and you offer 5GB storage plans, you can put much that 6 accounts safely on that space. Same with monthly transfer, with your 300Gb selling 50Gb plans, you could surely place 10 customer on that plan, without comprimising their service at all.
This si why your reseller plan cost more than the same plan for a single customer's use.
You don't know the questions to ask, so you're in a difficult position. I've been in your position, as have most people. If you go with CoastInc, they have a 30-day unconditional money back guarantee, which they will live up to. They will set up your server and you can ask as many questions as you wan, and you'll get the answers from professionals. Their balance is that they offer slightly less powerful servers ( dual-Xeon 2.4ghz as opposed to diual-Xeon 2.8 or even 3.0Ghz), and this amount to an incredible cost savings. With this cost savings they can offer you unlimited support for just the kinds of questions you need to ask.
With a 30-day unconditional money back guarantee you can't go too wrong; they're that confident.
I would recommend not considering RackSpace or a higher-costs service, because those companies are actually marketing to customers who know a lot more and only need a little assistance. That's why they give you one or two ticket or hour os support for free, than charge you after that; they assume you know what you're doing and theyll only be doing higher-end work. You're starting out new, so you want a full-time management that will answer 40 tickets a month - included with the price of the server.
You also need a server that has plenty of resources; you want at least 2,000Gb transfer/month is you don't want to over sell too much, and you'l want a good system with full backups (don't forget the backups). With CoastInc you can use one of your drives as a backup drive, or get a third drive for a backup.
I think most people here are providing the wrong advice for someone in your position .. except:
ChaoticSilence and swflnetworks:
JonesSolutions is more what you need. However, I'm not sure that they offer unlimited support for everything from cPanel to security. It's a bit hard to make out. CoastInc will actually migrate a new client of yours from another server at a different hosting company ... will Jones Solutions do that kind of work included?
Also, Jones solutions offers only a single drive except on their dual Xeon 2.8 and above, so you'd need to spend $30/month additional for a back-up drive. I don't know if they inculde a back-up service with their managed plan. Backups I think are crucial; with out them, if your HDD goes, you're out of business, and your clients are really messed up.
I have shopped around extensively, and I don't see anyone who beats CoastInc with their certain full-management solution. Jones solutions is good, though; but are they going to migrate a customer over from another server when you don't know how to do it? Borghunn would require these very comprehensive services, I imagining.
Additionally, on the JonesSolution site:
Misc. Add-Ons:
Additional IPS in Blocks of 8 - $16/month
100MBP/S Port - $20/Month
This means you're on a 10/Mbps uplink??? That's just a little too insufficient these days. Also, they offer 1,000Gb transfer, which is respectable, but I'm more comfortable with 1,500 or 2,000 on a dual-Xeon.
Certainly their Dual-Xeon 2.8 and their P4 3.2 are good deals, though. I'll have to check them out a little more. Actually their P4 3.2 looks excellent ... but I'm sensing that their management might cater to more advances users than borghunn, but maybe someone could get back on that.
But Jones Solutions is vastly more like what borghunn needs than RackSpace or Rack911. But I know CoastInc, and they are perfect for someone just starting out - as well as more advance users. Basically, I feel spoiled there.
Thanks,
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| Posted by Shin, 02-07-2006, 08:42 AM | | while i haven't been with them for that long, i can say servstra has been great for me.
I'm pretty sure they offer both "proactive" and non proactive management.
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| Posted by swflnetworks, 02-07-2006, 10:17 AM | | Hello,
I wasn't reffering to ordering their dedicated servers. I was more or less reffering to using a combination of them and LayeredTechnologies.
As for transferring sites from another host, my sister did that for me while I was in the hospital, someone who's never been in CPanel or Plesk before, so I think the process is pretty painless on that end for anyone to do.
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| Posted by Corptex, 02-07-2006, 04:31 PM | | swflnetworks;
Ok I see; I guess I misunderstood about JonesSolutions. Although their P4 solution does look like one of the best values around - depending on backup capabilities.
Having had the kind of setup you're recommending, where you have a different company for your server and for your management, I find that going with one company for a fully-managed server to be a superior experience.
As far as transfering sites from another host to your own ... I was talking about websites, accounts, MySQL DB's, for instance. You aren't trying to tell me that your sister - never being in a CP - moved a MySQL DB between cPanel and Plesk without exact, precise instructions ... are you?
Are you saying that someone who's never been in a CP before can move a full website "painlessly". How?
Because what you're telling me - REALLY - as well as borghunn and everybody else - is that I'm full of sh*t and that borghunn can do these things him/her/self effortlessly, "painlessly" even, having been in a CP before.
Well, ok, I have an acount to be moved with two MySQL DB's between a Plesk account and my cPanel server. How many THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS would you like to bet that boghunn cannot do this ... without you writing out completely explicit instructions, step-by-step, or providing him step-by-step instrutions?
I'll bet you ANY AMOUNT OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS that you would need to do this - or provide this explicit informaion somehow. PLUS, I'll bet ANOTHER HALF THE ORIGINAL BET that your instructions are inadequate and there is at least one mistake made.
"Painlessly" ???
I think not.
You on for a gentleman's bet right here in front of the world?
Or , are you saying that borghunn will have the same assistance your sister did? From who? From you? For free? Or, from the managed-server company I recommend?
I'm sorry, but I expose you for the fraud you are.
Nobody on this forum will believe that your sister, never being in a CP before, migrated an entire account with one of everything on it from Pleck to cPanel (or the reverse) without explicit instructions provided to her by - probably you. Whether the instructions where on a website, step-by-step, or you wrote them on a piece of paper, the fact is she did not simply sit down and open windows on the computer into CP's and the account was moved.
On TOP of this BS you want to spill all over the place with your 'painless' more advanced operations, you seemed to MISS THE WHOLE POINT ALTOGETHER. This was an example of the things they will do. Will JonesSolutions do this? My questions stands, just as I originally put it:
"...will Jones Solutions do that kind of work included?"
y,know ... what kind of work? That kind of work. Y'know?
You have completely misrepresented what I said and you deliberately mis-interpreted what I said and meant ... for what purpose? For exactly WHO's benefit? For borghunn's? Is that who you're helping out here? Helping him by discrediting what I say and mean? Wll JonesSolutions do this kind of work for borghunn? A simple question, yet unanswered, but a lot of BS throw around in the way - so I can assume not. Why didn't you just say so?
Borgunn makes a post and I provide clear answers through all the stuff like RackSpace and Rack911 - all high quality, but just not for someone in his position. I stop to question your very own statement, which is simply:
"Go with JonesSolution."
where you didn't say "...at a DC such a Layered Tech" (so we, I, borghunn, anybody reading can assume you meant JonesSolutions, not JonesSolutions + Layered Tech, why would your readers assume you meant that?) So, I now have to address this incomplete information. "Go with RackSpace." No, don't ... and here's why. "Go with Jones Solutions." Wait, I'm not so sure ... let's compare. Something wrong with that?
If you want to question my motives go right ahead out in the open. Question my motives, please; go ahead. I stand completely behind what I say, and there's no chance you're going to come along and pull some rabbit out of a hat to discredit me just because you don't like how particular I am of myself. Yes, I feel completely particular about what I posted and why. And you don't get to quote my whole post without me calling you on it, and asking: what statement you're trying to make by quoting my entire lengthy post? Because I kow what it is and nothing you can do can cover your intentions. Just answer the question and: either it will be the truth, or; it will be more BS.
If you don't like me or what I post, say it.
But to attempt to discredit what I say, to the adverse effect of an innocent third party is downright petty and cowardly. That's what really bothers me.
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| Posted by swflnetworks, 02-07-2006, 04:57 PM | | Hey bud, take a prozac. I was just making a recommendation. You're reading too much into my post. This is a forum, relax. Other people can make recommendations too, just because it doesn't agree with yours doesn't mean you need to crack-open your can of legalese.
You just did that to me right there, so I'd kindly ask that you think before you speak.
I'm not discrediting ANYONE'S recommendations, I'm purely recommending another provider. Do you have a problem with that? Are you getting something in return for getting a sale for your provider that the chance that he goes with someone else completely blows it.. making you so mad to make such a long and pretencious post as above? Honestly, by how "defensive" you're being right now, you're really making it sound that way.
As for my sister transffering accounts. Yes, she was easily able to do it from Plesk to CPanel.
Via CPanel's "Copy multiple accounts from another server" function.
She had a paper listing the IP, the usernames and the passwords. That's all she had.
All I told her to do was to put the information in and hit Go, let it run, when it says complete, close it up. Log off.
Simple enough?
Next time you sit there and run your mouth, maybe you'll do a little research next time, huh bub?
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| Posted by Corptex, 02-07-2006, 06:34 PM | | I had no problems with your recommendations, in fact I specifically mentioned your name as poviding advice in the right direction - as shown above - and I even suggested looking into it. I asked just later if someone could clarify the question at hand but you didn't.
Also, I already take prozac
If that cPanel function will move an account from another hosted server, then I stand corrected, as I assumed its intention was to move one's own account between one's own servers. I suppose it stand to reason that with the only that provided information necessar you could move an account from somebody else's server.
I stand corrected and own many thousands of dollars.
I stand that you thought/sensed that I received some form of compensation for selling this server to this potential customer, and you are correct, which is why I asked you to question my motivations at the end of my last post.
I asked that because, from your reply and your intentions, you obviously strongly suspected that I received a form of compensation, and THAT is why you did, in fact, attempt to discredit me.
However, the fact is that I only do this because I see a perfect match between the company and the potential client. Even so, I advised looking into JonesSolutions, as their p4 solution might be a better choice.
Additionally, just because I receive a form of compensation does not necessarily mean I am biased. If JonesSolutions will provie the same level of support CoastInc would, then I would recommend their P4 solution in this case. But, that crucial information has not been forth-coming.
What do I gain?
Nothing tangible; I said I feel spoiled by this company, and I want to return something to them.
I also will be offering dedicated servers myself, and I would like the opportunity to provide proactive support for the potential client in question, since CoastInc does not provide pro-active support. I gain experience in working with a non-proactive management company in making particular a customer's server is kept up-to date.
So, my enthusiam is for the opportunity to provide an additional proactive support, and to provide a turn-key solution to someone who is new to servers, to teach the customer how to act proactively themselves and to basically familiarize them with running a server, while their server is being managed fully by a company I know can provide any service I cannot.
That's what I gain, and yes, I am somewhat desperate the borghunn does not make the mistake of going with RackSpace or someone like Rack911, because that is not what he needs at all. I am providin what he needs.
I receive no money for this. In fact, I am going to spend money to put an additional, 3rd hard-drive in his system as a backup drive. I may or may not be compensated for the extra HDD; I haven't even discussed it since it doesn't matter - regardless of this, I will place the 3rd HDD for the backup drice in borghunn's servers.
You mistook this enthusiam for a greediness, and this is why you came back with your reply directed specifically against me, in consolidated attempt to discredit me, without even putting in anything positive to burghunn himself. Your post served to produce further confusion, rather than eliminate it, as I had asked whan I asked, "does JonesSolution offer this kind of service included?"
Your reply to my post was so obviously an attack based on your thought and feeling - which you were evidently going to speak out-loud in this post because I challenged you to, and which you did speak out loud your suspicions of my motivations - that I was 'in it for the money'.
You are incorrect. But you were too cowardly to say so in your first reply, so you attack me under-handedly. It took my previous post to get you to admit your true motivaion in your fist reply to my in your second reply ....
"...I'm purely recommending another provider. Do you have a problem with that? Are you getting something in return for getting a sale for your provider that the chance that he goes with someone else completely blows it.. making you so mad to make such a long and pretencious post as above? Honestly, by how "defensive" you're being right now, you're really making it sound that way."
's what I wanted you to admit.
"Go ahead, question my motivations." I say. And there you go.
So, are you really as innocent as you want to place yourself? No, you're an under-handed coward, just as I said in my first reply, you do damage to other people's innocence with your presumptions which stick out like a sore thumb to me at least, you underhandedly discredit people who may be actuall telling the real deal in someone's real best interst, though you care more about your own interest to let THAT happen, you act not in their best interest but out of jealously, envy, and covetousness which you accuse me of without, of course, actually saying so, just strongly implying it. Sorry, I have the guts to actually speak it. You just imply things under the table.
If you had been hoestin your first reply to me and asked "What ae you getting out of this; I small something fishy," then there would have been no problem. You would have been acting in everyone's best interest - including borghunn's, and I would have said what I just said above.
You need more guts, and you need to be more responsible, and YOU need to think before you speak, to make sure you're being honest in what you say - so that you don't do the inadvertant harm you do, and someone like me has to fix it for you.
You failed to challenge me because you were afraid of being wrong and afraid that people would ink of you EXACTLY as you would now have them think of me...
"Relax, take a Prozac, think before you speak..."
and all that BS. So you didn't follow what you KNOW and what you SENSE unquestionably. That there's something in it for me. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Also, you might know that I PM'd burghunn, telling him of my intentions before I ever made a post on this topic. I act honorably. Unfortunately, not everyone does. So you sense what you sense. You fail everyone by not speaking of what you, as a man, sense as right and wrong.
You failed yourself, your failed someone you were supposed to be helping, and you failed everyone ... because you're scared of the EXACT things you have accused me of; that people will think these things of you.
Fear is the worst enemy of Humankind. Getting past Fear is a Man's greatest triumph.
Thanks for your time and continuation in this matter; it is dangerous because one of us has been bound to lose real, real bad - and at least you had the guts to stick it in through that possible loss to yourself publically.
Back to the topic; what's good advice for borghunn?
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| Posted by swflnetworks, 02-07-2006, 06:46 PM | | Aside of your hypocritical remarks saying i'm the coward.
I'll leave you with your ego to think about that for one moment, I suggest you read your posts one more time before you start naming off who was "personally attacking", and "calling people names". Might also want to reaquaint yourself with the forum rules.
To borghunn, I apologize that Corptex had to make his half-page replies trying to make himself look smart.
I wish you the best of luck in finding your provider.
And take each and every review and recommendation (mine included) with a pinch of salt, because no matter what (corptex says), each one of those people could, and might have an alterior motive in that recommendation.
Research each provider and their service, Communicate with the provider directly, and make an informed decision based on what you feel is best to suit your needs.
With that, that's my last reply. I'm sure Corptex will use this opportunity to try and lure me back in by hashing away at my character some more. Have fun with that.
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| Posted by Corptex, 02-07-2006, 07:12 PM | | My apologies for the many typos in the above post ... I do have to clarify this paragraph, though:
If you had been honest in your first reply to me and asked "What are you getting out of this; I smell something fishy," then there would have been no problem. You would have been acting in everyone's best interest - including borghunn's, and I would have said what I just said above about what I gain.
Thanks,
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| Posted by swflnetworks, 02-07-2006, 07:20 PM | | For my last and final reply.
I have no problem with you. I have no problem with CoastInc.
All I'm saying is don't read so far into a freakin post. All I did was post a recommendation and the simple fact that is quite easy to transfer sites from a server and you jumped down my throat.
I wasn't discrediting your review in any way. I wasn't discrediting CoastInc in anyway. I was simply stating one fact.
I do not appreciate your personal attacks against me. I find it a lack of respect. Especially as I did nothing to encourage it.
If you do not like the wording of something I said, take it to me on PM, don't drag this crap out cluttering up a thread, trying to make yourself look good.
If you have anything further to add, show borghunn a little respect and send it to me in Private Message.
Period.
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| Posted by writespeak, 02-07-2006, 07:32 PM | | Since this thread has provided the advice that the thread starter asked for and then deteriorated, we'll stop it from deteriorating more. Thread closed.
Lois
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