| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-25-2012, 12:01 PM | | From what I see,
SiteAutoBackup is waay too expensive....
They charge $1 extra for an extra 1GB per month
So if I need 50GB, the base is $2 which gives you 1GB so I will need an extra 49GB which means it will cost me $51($49+$2) per month. That's $612 per year with no free months provided if you purchase a year in advance!! EDIT: This is incorrect, we do get 2 months free if purchased annually but this still equates to $520.
Is my math incorrect??
WebbyCart offers 50GB for $9.99 per month whic is $119.88. But if I buy a year upfront, I get 2months free which means it is only $99.90 AND I can use the current promotional offer to double up the space to 100GB.
That is a HUGE different to SiteAutoBackup.
FTPOffsite is even cheaper!!! $5.99 per month which is $71.88 for 100GB
Am I correct in saying that SiteAutoBackup is extremely overpriced???
Last edited by wolvyreen; 02-25-2012 at 12:09 PM.
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| Posted by Jutt, 02-25-2012, 12:02 PM | | I think this is same post you have posted in EZPZ Resellers Thread, that was confusing me there too.
Still confusing me
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-25-2012, 12:03 PM | | Yes, I decided to start my own thread. But is my math wrong?
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| Posted by HostXNow_Chris, 02-25-2012, 12:05 PM | | So you saw my mention of FTPOffsite in the EZPZ thread then?
FTPOffsite are very cheap. Good if you don't need Jailed SSH access.
It also depends on the location of the backup server - UK location prices a lot more! That's another thing you're probably noticing too.
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-25-2012, 12:08 PM | | Definitely!! FTPOffsite looks EXTREMELY well priced and i am now considering signing up with them because WebbyCart STILL has not set me up. I signed up last night at 00h15 GMT+2 and still not up and running.
So FTPOffsite is looking very appealing right now.
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| Posted by HostXNow_Chris, 02-25-2012, 12:13 PM | | There is a slight catch with FTPOffsite though, as I mentioned above... you can't use custom backup scripts which makes setting everything up a little more difficult. You can use custom scripts with WebbyCart. Personally, I'd choose BQBackup, WebbyCart or ServerSync for USA backups (all 3 providers have a good rep at WHT, check reviews).
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-25-2012, 12:21 PM | | https://sites.google.com/site/myhobbylocation/home/misc/siteautobackup.png]
Take a look here, I think SiteAutoBackup's costs are messed up. Anyone else seeing this as well??
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-25-2012, 12:23 PM | | What about using http://whmeasybackup.com/
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| Posted by HostXNow_Chris, 02-25-2012, 12:26 PM | | They just provide software to automate setting things up. I don't think that'd work with FTPOffsite. It should work with the other 3 providers.
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-25-2012, 12:51 PM | | That's strange, what would be preventing you from automating your copy job on to your FTP server??
Can someone check this for me?
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| Posted by HostXNow_Chris, 02-25-2012, 12:57 PM | | It depends how you want to set it up. They're many ways to go about it.
But you cannot create say backup.sh and then setup cron to run backup.sh from the backup account. FTPOffsite don't just allow it.
They're good if you just want to send data to the account though.
But I prefer to use incremental rsync and use custom backup scripts and "pull" (more secure) the data instead of "pushing" (less secure) the data, which you can do with BQBackup, WebbyCart and ServerSync.
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-25-2012, 01:00 PM | | http://whmeasybackup.com/ pushes it so then it would work.
Just out of interest sake, Why would pushing data be less secure?
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| Posted by DWS2006, 02-25-2012, 01:04 PM | | As long as they provide standard ftp user:pass functionality, it should be fine. I've ordered a 7 day trial and will confirm whether or not this will work with WHMEasyBackup after receiving account details.
GoDaddy offers 100GB of file storage for $2.50 a month. However, they do force yearly payment. WHMEasyBackup definitely functions normally with GoDaddy online file folder accounts.
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| Posted by DWS2006, 02-25-2012, 01:06 PM | | When you push data, there is a chance that someone with access to the server can gain access to your remote backup space. Frequently hackers will delete any remote backups they can gain access to when hacking a server.
That's why the WHMEasyBackup Secure+ function allows users to encrypt config files, hiding remote server login details.
Last edited by DWS2006; 02-25-2012 at 01:10 PM.
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-25-2012, 01:07 PM | | That's crazy cheap!
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| Posted by DWS2006, 02-25-2012, 01:21 PM | | Service is generally good, decent speed, etc.
If your looking for a high level of attentive support, a higher priced option like WebbyCart will probably suit you better.
But if a simple ftp solution is what your after, Godaddy is hard to top.
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-25-2012, 06:20 PM | | WARNING!!! Godaddy does not offer a Secure FTP session. only plain ftp on port 21. While this might be ok for some, I don't believe this is good enough for a host that is copying their clients backup files. This session needs to be secure in my opinion. the last thing you need is for your password to be sniffed and you loose all your backups.
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-25-2012, 06:36 PM | | According to their promo page here, they do offer SFTP http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=939157
I also checked on their site and you can select between normal FTP and Rsync, SFTP & FTP
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| Posted by HostXNow_Chris, 02-25-2012, 07:00 PM | | Yes, but they don't offer Jailed SSH access. Having Jailed SSH access makes things a lot easier.
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-25-2012, 07:05 PM | | is there really a big difference between Jailed SSH and SFTP? Aren't they both secure sessions??
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| Posted by HostXNow_Chris, 02-25-2012, 07:07 PM | | With Jailed SSH access you can use linux commands and so can run custom backup scripts, etc. SFTP just allows you to transfer data securely.
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-25-2012, 07:12 PM | | Ok, but that's all I need to do. Transfer my backups securely to an offsite location.
So I don't need jailed SSH. Thanks for the tips though I think FTPOffsite is perfect for my needs.
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| Posted by Yujin, 02-25-2012, 08:00 PM | | Wow this is good info. Will signup to them.
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| Posted by Yujin, 02-25-2012, 08:02 PM | | What do you mean by WHMEasyBackup Secure+?
Is this a new product or version?
I tried your trial and the config file is readable.
Please clarify
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| Posted by DWS2006, 02-25-2012, 10:23 PM | | Hello,
Secure + is a product addon ($9.99) that encrypts the config file. Secure + can be purchased from within the client area.
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| Posted by Steven F, 02-25-2012, 11:31 PM | | Personally, I think most of the major players are extremely over priced. $10 per 50 GB? That is absurd. It's less than a one month ROI in a lot of cases.
Why is this in the reseller section?
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| Posted by compITent, 02-26-2012, 02:18 AM | | Yea but from what I just noticed its a bait.
$2.50/mo for 100GB then "additional storage" is $139/yr per 100GB.
When we were pricing out our storage we came out to ~$100/TB per mo. This was before the flood but stuck with it.
If anyone knows any more info as far as SLA on speed and availability as well as what raid redundancy they have, I'd be interested to hear it.
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| Posted by HostXNow_Chris, 02-26-2012, 05:42 AM | | If you want to use Rsync you'll need Jailed SSH access. You can't use Rsync with SFTP.
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-26-2012, 05:58 AM | | SiteAutoBackup charges $50 for 50GB. Thats even absurder!! Cause this is about backup solutions for resellers.
My only concern is making a backup of the accounts on to an offsite location. Using a secure connection is what I want. You are talking about pulling the data. I am using the WHMEasyBackup solution that pushes the data.
Pushing the data only needs a SFTP session. or am I wrong?
Last edited by wolvyreen; 02-26-2012 at 06:01 AM.
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| Posted by HostXNow_Chris, 02-26-2012, 06:08 AM | | Ok, you can push data to ftp account using SFTP, but you will also need
to encrypt the config file. If you don't a hacker can delete your backups from the source server.
Unless you use rsync you'll be using a lot more bandwidth and having to overwrite backup files. When using incremental rsync only the files that have changed (modified files) are updated thus saving bandwidth/resources.
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-26-2012, 06:16 AM | | I want the config encrypted, don't get me wrong but this scenario that you are referring to is only if the hacker gets access to my reseller account details because he will need that in order to get on to my file system to grab the information. He won't be able to sniff the password if the session is secure.FTPOffsite offers Rsync. I don't know whether it is secure but I will see what they offer when they set me up. Sigh....still waiting to be set up. No one works over weekends it seems. What if I am in an emergency
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| Posted by HostXNow_Chris, 02-26-2012, 06:24 AM | | Yes, but using "push" method. Best to use "pull" method, which you can do easily when you have Jailed SSH access. FTPOffsite don't offer Jailed SSH access.
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-26-2012, 06:26 AM | | That's true, but anyone who DOES offer jailed SSH is charging an arm and a leg and their grandmother! If the costs are so vastly different, I would rather take a chance on pushing the data over a secure connection and encrypting the config file. I don't see how the hackers can win there.
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| Posted by HostXNow_Chris, 02-26-2012, 06:36 AM | | Well whether using "push" or "pull" method to transfer the data, a good hacker can do the damage if they really wanted to (you may have done something to upset them).
As as a host you're supposed to prevent easy hacks. Using the "pull" method is just one way to help prevent a hacker deleting all of your backups.
So you should pay extra for Jailed SSH access. If all your clients data got deleted you would've wished you spent that extra $/month.
Well you can do that if you like, just means you can't have the benefits of using Rsync.
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-26-2012, 06:40 AM | | Look, I understand that the best and perfect method is to pull but if it was so risky, then why would there be services such as FTPOffsite backups that offer these services for backup purposes if the security posed such a risk? Also, why would there be such a great script such as WHMEasyBackup that pushes the data?
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| Posted by HostXNow_Chris, 02-26-2012, 06:47 AM | | Mainly used for online storage, backup home PCs, cheaper way of backing up servers (with risk).
I guess push is for non-critical data. They offer addon so you can encrypt the data.
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-26-2012, 06:52 AM | | Then I suppose that eliminates the risk considerably?
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| Posted by HostXNow_Chris, 02-26-2012, 06:57 AM | | Of course.
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-26-2012, 07:14 AM | | Then what I am trying to say Is it is definitely a cost effective and viable safe option
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| Posted by HostXNow_Chris, 02-26-2012, 07:17 AM | | Yes, for those who don't need to use rsync, rdiff, etc.
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| Posted by Steven F, 02-26-2012, 08:33 AM | | That is absurd. We don't charge that much a year for that kind of space. I really never understood how people got away with charging such high costs.
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-26-2012, 08:36 AM | | Well how they work is they charge you 1.95 for 1GB and the service they offer. Then for every extra additional 1GB they charge you $1. So if you need 50GB cause you have to keep 5 days worth of backups for your business that consists of 10GB, that is 50GB at $50
I read somewhere that they might be partnered with HostGator I think.
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| Posted by HostXNow_Chris, 02-26-2012, 08:45 AM | | Don't forget that SiteAutoBackup also provides tools for making it easier to make backups. They save you the hassle of having to create backup scripts, setting up cronjobs, etc. Probably still a bit expensive though.
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| Posted by Steven F, 02-26-2012, 08:47 AM | | But you can buy similar software for ~$25 (one-time) and then follow their simple setup guide...
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-26-2012, 08:49 AM | | Oh I totally agree They make it very simple but they arent charging for the ease of setup and their tools. They charge you 1.95 for that. What they are charging you is the space itself for an extra $1
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| Posted by HostXNow_Chris, 02-26-2012, 08:49 AM | | Yup, so many options.
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| Posted by DWS2006, 02-26-2012, 09:41 AM | | For some users the idea of setting up the backup process manually is just too big of a job to take on. For those users the automated sites (all of which seem to charge similar costs per GB) offer a simple alternative.
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-26-2012, 09:55 AM | | yes, but we aren't talking now about the ease of service. We are talking about the price per GB:Sorry but this just isn't true.
Comparing SiteAutoBackup which charges $1/GB extra for their STORAGE not service.
All the below provide (RSync, SFTP, Jailed SSH)
BQBackup charges $0.20/GB whichs includes their service
WebbyCart charges $0.12/GB which includes their service
ServerSync charges $0.15/GB which inclues their service
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| Posted by DWS2006, 02-26-2012, 09:59 AM | | There really are numerous options available for the creation and storage of backups. What's best for one user may not even be an option for another depending on the level of access to the server etc.
It's also important to keep in mind that any connection between two servers used for file transfer ultimately opens a window between the two. This window could be exploited by a user with the right know-how should the server authenticating the transaction be compromised. Push or Pull doesn't change this it only changes the direction that a potential attack could be coming from.
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| Posted by DWS2006, 02-26-2012, 10:01 AM | | I was comparing the automated service pricing (siteautobackup, backomatic, etc.). I agree 100% that the cost is very high compared with traditional backup services.
Last edited by DWS2006; 02-26-2012 at 10:04 AM.
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| Posted by wolvyreen, 02-26-2012, 10:03 AM | | Ah ok. sorry misunderstood.
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| Posted by DWS2006, 02-26-2012, 10:32 AM | | https://hostigation.com/?page=Backup offers low cost vps servers for backup. Storage on those is not redundant, so there are trade offs for the low pricing. But another option for users looking for backup storage.
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| Posted by Yujin, 02-26-2012, 11:06 AM | | Do you advertise this from the main page?
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| Posted by DWS2006, 02-26-2012, 11:12 AM | | We do not advertise Secure + on our website at this time, but it is available as an addon to any WHMEasyBackup license. We'll get a real website one of these days and add that on there.
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| Posted by Steven F, 02-26-2012, 12:38 PM | | Right, but even $0.15 per GB is pretty expensive. If each hard drive $500 for 3 TB, they're barely paying more than that.
What do you mean no redundancy? I'm pretty sure Tim uses RAID. There is definitely some redundancy.
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| Posted by DWS2006, 02-26-2012, 12:43 PM | | I did miss-phrase that, I meant no backup should the RAID array fail etc. Thanks for pointing that out, I wouldn't want to negatively impact their business with false statements.
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| Posted by Steven F, 02-26-2012, 12:45 PM | | I feel like making a backup of a backup server is a bit extreme, especially at the costs he is charging!
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| Posted by DWS2006, 02-26-2012, 12:57 PM | | Very True, his packages are a great value. That's why I thought users looking at this thread would be very interested.
There are a lot of backup hosting companies that will run dual SAN arrays in a mirrored storage configuration, but at a higher price of course. Many will have un-mirrored timed dumps of the SAN arrays on yet another storage array as well.
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| Posted by Steven F, 02-26-2012, 01:02 PM | | Personally, I see it as pointless. Instead of paying a single provider to make two copies of your data in one data center, you should pay two providers each to make one copy of your data, which is now stored in two different data centers by two different providers, meaning better redundancy than a single company with fully mirrored SANs. Just my two cents.
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| Posted by DWS2006, 02-26-2012, 01:13 PM | | In the price range we are talking about and for the usage described in this thread, I agree.
From higher priced backup companies that specialize in data backup for home or business desktops/clients etc., I can see the need for extended measures.
Last edited by DWS2006; 02-26-2012 at 01:22 PM.
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| Posted by Steven F, 02-26-2012, 01:43 PM | | Personally, I don't, unless it's full replication in a separate and distant data center. Why keep two copies in one location? Even then, it's probably better for a client to use two separate entities. Granted, two providers each keeping a backup of your backup would rock, but it's not going to be cost effective.
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