| Posted by AudiA4Turbo, 02-03-2012, 07:26 AM | | Hi I currently do some reselling but I am unhappy with my hosting solution (justhost.com, they do mysql restarts in the middle of the day very frustrating) and I would like find a new hosting company. Does anyone have recommendations? These were a couple I came across though they were neat that it was wind powered. I am looking for a good reliable hosting company and just don't know where to start.
fatcow.com - I read elsewhere on the forum to stay away from them so I was going to steer clear anyone have experience with them?
greengeeks.com - Don't know anything except what I have read on their site.
My main concerns with a hosting provider are:
1. stability + reliability (most important)
2. support (second most important)
3. price (least important)
I would rather not have to call support but if I do I want to know they are going to help me and I know that comes at a price.
What are your thoughts?
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| Posted by CrocWeb, 02-03-2012, 07:35 AM | | How much diskspace/bandwidth do you require?
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| Posted by Settoz, 02-03-2012, 08:00 AM | | Am using v7host.com and I am very happy with their service!
Or you shoukd check out Elven2.com
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| Posted by cutabovehost, 02-03-2012, 08:48 AM | | What made you pick the ones you listed and how did you find out about them?
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| Posted by Onra Host, 02-03-2012, 10:15 AM | | I would suggest scrolling down to the reseller Hosting offers section on the main page and looking through the main hosts with stickys on top. Those companies offer some of the best reliability , stability , and support in the industry. Most of them have deals as well so the price could be lower then expected
In addition most of these hosts are well know on wht so you could easily find a few reviews on them and make your choice based on that .
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| Posted by AudiA4Turbo, 02-03-2012, 10:22 AM | | I don't need that much disk space right now maybe 25 gig.
I found the ones listed via google search.
I am going to look in the hosting offers and see what I find.
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| Posted by hclloveh, 02-03-2012, 10:52 AM | | I'm using FatCow, it looks fine and stable. Did you scare it throught reviews?
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| Posted by RC-Martin, 02-03-2012, 11:16 AM | | U.S or EU? what's your budget?
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| Posted by ldcdc, 02-03-2012, 12:37 PM | | My experience with them is rather dated (1.5 years ago), but I would suggest you don't use them. Constantly slow servers. Not only that, but Fatcow is owned by the same company that owns Justhost (Endurance International Group, or EIG), along with ~30 other hosting brands, a number of which you can see listed here: http://www.bbb.org/boston/business-r...gton-ma-76863/.
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| Posted by starcake, 02-03-2012, 12:50 PM | | I'd also suggest Eleven2 for a reseller account. We've been using them with no problems for a while now.
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| Posted by cutabovehost, 02-03-2012, 04:08 PM | | Just because you see someone listed at the top with a post that has been marked sticky does not mean that they are the best. Anyone can get on that list with the $$$ or desire to buy it.
I never chose anyone because they were stickied at the top of the forum.
It does not give you a full review of their company and offerings.
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| Posted by Onra Host, 02-03-2012, 04:37 PM | | That's not what I meant, so I should clarify. I was talking abou checking the stickys as it usually has reviews on WHT and the company is on the forums and you could simply find more info on these hosts then other h
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| Posted by stebaker, 02-04-2012, 10:10 AM | | I think you should contact them and speak to them and ask questions to see if they will fit what you are looking for. As many reviews you might find I think speaking with the provider will answer and tell you better if they are the right choice for you.
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| Posted by plus1host, 02-04-2012, 12:42 PM | | Choose the company have live chat support ticket phone support and money back guarantee
that is really good company
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| Posted by domaincart, 02-04-2012, 04:42 PM | | I recommend Hostdime and Surpasshosting(a member of Hostdime family). Their support response time is about 30 minutes. The servers are sometimes slow but works stable and uptime is good.
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| Posted by AudiA4Turbo, 02-07-2012, 05:25 PM | | I agree with you, it seems like some of these companies with stickies are just buying their name.
I am not too worried about price at this point, I might check out hostdime, but I used to use their colo facility about 5 years ago and at the time I had a lot of network connectivity issues with them. Once my server was down for a whole day because of an issue with their power and generator. I really would have a hard time working with them again after the issues I have had.
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| Posted by HostDime, 02-07-2012, 06:24 PM | | I apologize you experienced any issues with us in the distant past. A search here on WHT will yield a current review of our services. We wish you well in your search and your consideration is appreciated.
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| Posted by AudiA4Turbo, 02-07-2012, 06:35 PM | | Manny, I talked to you last time when I had a problem after you shipped my servers to me and they were damaged. Your lack of help in the situation only allowed for one of the server to be covered under Fedex insurance.
I am sure you have clients that have good experiences with your company but I for one had many bad experiences.
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| Posted by HostDime, 02-07-2012, 07:10 PM | | I don't recall this situation personally but if you can allow me to make it up to you with in some sort of way please email me directly manny.v @hostdime.com and I would be happy to do so, 5 years is a long time ago. We strive for 100% perfection and I know things sometimes go wrong, however we want to ensure we do our part to take responsibility for mistakes and make them right.
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| Posted by ninak, 02-07-2012, 08:03 PM | | http://www.hudsonvalleyhost.com I highly recommend them.
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| Posted by ImageLogic, 02-08-2012, 01:22 AM | | Unless their TOS has changed in the last month or so, Eleven2 seems to have rather little confidence in their long term performance. Their TOS says that when you pay them for a year of service they only have to give you 30 days of service that you find useful. I'm not sure if that's exactly a ringing endorsment of their own product.
We tried them and their service was fine, but we went elsewhere when they absolutely refused to let us pay for a year in advance with the guarantee that should their service become unacceptable we would get the unused balance refunded. That seemed a trifle odd even though they explained that they discount the annual price because the customer is assuming the risk that Eleven2's service will stop or degenerate during the term of the contract.
That may be no problem if you don't mind leaving a credit card and authorization to draw at will for monthly payments, but I'm in a more corporate environment where the risk management folks get their knickers in a knot over things like that.
Regards,
Aza D. Oberman
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| Posted by Eleven2 Hosting, 02-08-2012, 01:28 AM | | That is generally the same with every host. We only provide a FULL 60 day money back guarantee. The chance that you will renew with us for additional years is what we work so very hard for. We would move your account to a different server, etc if you are having any issues, we are not going to just help you for 60 days and tell you to jump in a lake afterwards. That is foolish of any reputable company, we are just not going to refund you 11 months into your term, just not worth our time.
I am very sure most folks concerns with risk management,etc are not talking about a hosting account that is between $40 and $600 (on the high end)bucks a year, thats very small amount of money for that type of talk. We are talking about less than $2 a day for our highest end reseller plan.
So yes, what our staff apparently told you would be correct.
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| Posted by ImageLogic, 02-08-2012, 01:46 AM | | We've been beating OnProMedia.com about the head and shoulders for a while now using two redheads armed with near mythic tempers and 15 minute interval up-time monitoring. OnPro Media Ltd. faultered a bit when bringing up a new server (we volunteered to be the first on it) but the glitch was only a matter of minutes.
On Pro Media's email support has been nothing short of stellar -- and both rational and honest. We never tried using the telephone though.
FWIW our experience convinced us to go to an annual contract.
If we screwed up in our evaluation it's nice to know someone else who's suffering, but obviously we think these guys are offering fair value for money and deserve your consideration.
Regards,
Aza D. Oberman
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| Posted by ImageLogic, 02-08-2012, 02:45 AM | | Gee, there's not much I can add except to apologize for recalling that Eleven2's TOS requires it provide only 30 days of service on an annual contract when indeed it is 60 days.
There is talk. There is a written contract. I prefer that they agree with each other. Other WHT readers may have different preferences.
It is to your credit however, that you confirm that according to the TOS Eleven2 has no contractural obligation to provide service 60 days after receiving payment for a year's service.
I'll also gladly concede that there are quite a number of hosting outfits that have a similar clause in their TOS. During the last 15 years we have been burned two times by hosting firms who asserted that clause -- oddly enough always little reseller accounts, never for full cages in data centers.
Any argument that somehow a nefarious hosting customer could get a better single month rate would collapse in front of a sensible schedule for prorating. For example prorating at the full monthly rate if terminated in the first three months.
Alas, I can't speak for the professional risk managers or explain why they might be concerned about the cumulative impact of small losses. But I can tell you that both they and the insurance underwriters regularly caution those of us in procurement against making open ended authorizations for charges against credit cards. The mantra seems to be to pay with a concrete instrument like an annual check that is less likely to fall into the hands of a nasty soul with a computer in Eastern Rippoffslavia. Frankly, it seems like a reasonable caution...
I have no dog in this fight anyway. Except for the open ended credit card draws there was nothing significantly wrong with the monthly service we received from Eleven2 for two months. The draconian TOS made it impossible to responsibly convert to an annual payment; so, with some difficulty, I asked that our account with Eleven2 be closed and we have moved on to an annual contract with a more suitable host.
Regards,
Aza
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| Posted by pmabraham, 02-08-2012, 11:29 AM | | Good day:
Yes, verbal statements should always match up with written contracts and written SLA's. The same goes for any type of communication be it email or fax in terms of lining up with written agreements.
Based on our own experience as a provider, all service levels should be consistent from the start with zero deterioration after any money back guarantee time frame.
Since no human being is perfect, there will be mistakes. It is how those mistakes are handled that shows the character, integrity, and reputation of the parties involved.
In terms of refunds on annual payments, most reputable providers will provide a prorated refund leaning towards what if the client was paying monthly or quarterly based on how much time is left on the annual.
I.e. if an annual contract provides a 10% discount, and the reseller cancels three months into the contract, it is more likely than not the provider will base the pro-rated refund as if the client was paying monthly and not involve the 10% discount. This presumes the reason for the cancellation involved no fault of the provider.
With so many providers offering reseller hosting as if it was as cheap as a coffee and doughnut, yes, it can be hard to find one that will live up to expectations.
Thank you.
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| Posted by ImageLogic, 02-08-2012, 01:17 PM | | I couldn't agree more, DynamicNet.
It is amazing how often I've heard salespeople say "I know it doesn't say that in the contract; but no one pays any attention to that boiler plate. Trust me, we'd never do something like that..."
There's not much to keep hit-and run hustlers and shifty characters from entering the web hosting business. Over the long haul, however, pure economics will weed those characters out thanks, in part, to forums like WHT.
Regards,
Aza
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| Posted by AudiA4Turbo, 02-08-2012, 03:16 PM | | I agree TOS should match what they tell you in person. I have been reading through quite a few hosting companies tos and they say some interesting things I am sure they don't want people to know.
So I have done some research and found the following hosts I am considering.
http://www.jaguarpc.com/
http://www.mddhosting.com/
http://www.hawkhost.com/
http://www.futurehosting.com/
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| Posted by ImageLogic, 02-08-2012, 07:43 PM | | You are right AudiA4Turbo, there are some issues with each of the TOS agreements.
One charge $50 if you object to anything they draw from your credit card, another charges $150.
One charges a $7.50 late fee.
In one section of the TOS one vendor says they reserve the right to change the monthly payment amount and any other charges at anytime. Yet in another section of the same TOS the same vendor says the amount you pay for hosting will never increase from the date of purchase without prior notice. The TOS is internally inconsistent.
At least two vendors have one of those potentially expensive collections cost clauses that can lead to hundreds of dollars in legal fees. There is a small industry of attorneys who pursue these small claims for the $200 to $1,000 often awarded as "reasonable" fees. A $20 controversy can quickly escalate into a notation on your credit record that there is an outstanding judgment against you for hundreds of dollars.
Typically these enterprising collection outfits won't take claims unless there is a contract clause entitling the vendor to "collection prices and legal fees". So it stands to reason customers are better off if there is no such clause in the TOS.
One vendor states that all services rendered are non-refundable. Others allude to prorating unused balances.
One vendor flat out says that if a customer says anything that the vendor construes as disparaging the customer will be terminated instantly without any recourse.
Many jurisdictions have local and national regulations limiting how one sided a contract like this can be. But as a practical matter one rarely goes to court, at least in the US, over the amounts in question here. So the only real risk is to customer monies in the vendor’s possession and the potential for damage to the customer's credit history by a collections outfit that runs up the bill -- and of course the disruption to the customer's business caused by a unilateral termination of service by the vendor.
Don't forget, you can discuss problem clauses with your prospective vendor. They may be willing to modify the agreement for you and the better ones will be grateful that you are helping to make them more competitive when attracting conscientious long term customers.
Alternatively, have you considered starting a co-op web server where a group splits a dedicated server three or four ways? The conflicts can be just as ugly but at least you get to work out your own agreement.
Regards and good luck -- I think you are on the right track to find the host best for your enterprise,
Aza
Last edited by ImageLogic; 02-08-2012 at 07:58 PM.
Reason: dropped a word
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| Posted by cutabovehost, 02-18-2012, 12:12 PM | | I understand what they are trying to do they are trying to look for ways to keep any money that comes in.
I would however work on trying to make the customer feel comfortable with using the business for the long term rather than looking for ways to keep any funds given to them. That would be the best business practice.
I am sure many people see TOS statements like above and find them equally uncertain and fearful that something might go wrong.
You would think that these hosting providers would be taking your money that you pay in advanced and putting it in a savings account somewhere and calling funds at scheduled intervals to their main accounts when your services where actually rendered.
You could actually set all that up in a spread sheet to give you the balances that needed to be transferred.
I get the reasoning behind some of the TOS charges. Like for late fees. Most of them only get charged after someone has been late at least 10 days. That means you had more than a week to come up with the money and didn't. Kind of hard to justify why someone could not come up with $6 in over a weeks time.
Other TOS fees are due to the fact that you have so many scammers out there on the net looking to cause trouble and that is where most of the TOS statements are aimed at.
Just look at spammers. They come to you with one story about their needs when they know full well they intend to do something that will cause you harm.
I had for instance one customer which was the first spammer I ever met way about the year 2000 as I recall. He started telling me that he had people stalking him and wanted to know if it would bother me getting complaints and reassured me that he would not doing anything wrong.
Well turns out he was a spammer and that not only that he was trying to sell apricot seeds and tell people they would cure cancer. So not only was he spamming but he had the FDA getting ready to pounce on him as well.
And even more recent I had a person inquiring about a server to use for mail. He just wanted to send messages to his constituents to the tune of 15k messages a day. No problem for sure. But when further investigated he didn't have a double opt in list. And when I did some Google searching I turned up domains registered to him that were on the RBL lists and some that Godaddy had terminated due to spamming.
I can only gather he was looking for a naive admin that would give him access and blessings so they would not have recourse and he would most likely say "well I told you I was going to send emails and you said it was okay. "
Had that problem with dial up access as well back when I sold it. People would sign up with a dial up account that is inexpensive and then spam the net until you pulled the plug and caught them.
Then you the admin have to do the leg work to beg and plead to get off the RBL list.
One thing for sure is that it does not take anything much for a customer to not choose your business. It can be something as silly as they don't like the theme you use or color schemes. Serious issues like TOS statements and the need for security that the funds they give you will actually be returned if they don't like your business.
I would hope that business would start thinking as if they were the customer when they make policies then simply make them from a business stand point and what is only good for the business.
I honestly never thought about making a policy that assured people that they would get 100% of the unused portion of their funds back for services paid in advance. I just always assumed that would be what any good business would do.
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| Posted by ImageLogic, 02-18-2012, 03:03 PM | | Cutabovehost's point is well made. Being on a shared server is a bit like being in a lifeboat. The actions of one party can have serious consequences for all on the server. But I too question if that's grounds for a draconian TOS.
Most service providers have a clause that allows them to summarily boot off spammers and scammers that might get the server black listed. It seems simple enough to kick someone off and refund any unused balance. That way if the host acted injudiciously at least they didn't also rip the customer off.
Another solution, and one to look for in a premium shared hosting environment, is separate IPs for each reseller. It seems like a very practical way to keep the misdeeds of one reseller's clients from blacklisting the other resellers on the service.
Some contracts have a resource usage clause to the effect that the customer can be booted off if they use over a particular percentage of their allocated resources at any one moment. Without a convenient way for the customer to regulate or even track resource use from moment to moment that clause is somewhere between absurd and silly. It seems like a clumsy attempt by the service provider to lay off the risk of unplanned burst bandwidth prices on the party least equipped to manage the risk.
All business involves taking risk. Supplier costs could go up. The regulatory climate can change. A carefully nurtured reputation can go sour. Customers can leave for other technologies. Fashion can change. Competition is each business betting that they can manage these variables better, or at least as well, as the next business.
The TOS is the provider telling the customer "this is what will happen if...". My suggestion is for potential customers to read the TOS and decide for themselves what the sorts of consequences tell them about the service provider.
Is the resolution of every problem for the service provider to be judge and jury with you, the customer, meekly paying the bill?
Perhaps you may prefer a sort of "no fault divorce" resolution where the provider may discontinue service but the customer is entitled to a prorated refund for any unused services. Cutabovehost quite properly points out that from a provider’s perspective this sort of resolution causes the least damage to both parties and just plain makes good business sense.
In any event, the TOS is a plain unvarnished roadmap to how the service provider intends to do business without all the puffery of advertising and promotion. It's the best way for someone on the market for hosting services to size up the business practices of a potential vendor.
Regards,
Aza D. Oberman
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| Posted by Stuart_c, 02-18-2012, 04:06 PM | | Why sign up with a company knowing that you do not agree with their ToS, but agree to it anyway and then complain when they don't change the ToS for you? Sorry but that seems like a bit of a daft thing to do.
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| Posted by ImageLogic, 02-18-2012, 08:56 PM | | There's no need to be sorry for an off the cuff remark. It's the nature of hasty actions to be a bit off the mark.
For some customers an uninterrupted Internet presence and access can be critical. Even when making a snap judgment one really should consider that sometimes customers are under time pressure because a current host is going under or shut down all or part of its service abruptly. So the customer hastily shifts to another vendor based on a reasonable reading of the TOS in the light most favorable to the customer and based on informal oral, chat or email representations. Granted it's not exhaustive due diligence on the part of the customer, but as good as one can expect given the haste.
When approached about buying an annual contract for real we asked Eleven2 to confirm our reading of their TOS. Eleven2 chose to read the TOS differently and confirmed that under their reading they are only obligated to provide something like 30 days of service should the customer pay for a year of service in advance.
IMHO, and without apology, that's what transcends daft. A vendor has a existing customer and has borne the cost to get them settled in for a couple of months with monthly payment; by what business logic would they throw away the customer just because the customer has the audacity to want to prepay for a year in advance?
I guess for some hosting providers it's easier to get another customer than keep the ones they have. It could also be that the hosting provider caters to a more volatile clientele where the turnover is brisk enough that the question of annual prepayments never got thought out. This is pure speculation on my part, I certainly don't know and can't speak for Eleven2.
Regards,
Aza
Last edited by ImageLogic; 02-18-2012 at 08:59 PM.
Reason: typo
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| Posted by algentar, 02-19-2012, 12:25 AM | | I have tried some reseller hosting provider, and crocweb.com is the best for stability, reliability, 15 minutes max support (for support and billing), and price, you can get 100GB with $29.95/mo
I have USA VPS, but they reseller hosting faster and stability is better than my VPS.
They have really have kind support. If you have any problem and suggestion, they will give you the best one.
I never found any error on my WHM and the WHM is so fast. I dont know what kind of server or how they configure the server, REALLY AMAZING. Just try it!
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| Posted by Luno Solutions ltd, 02-19-2012, 06:58 AM | | YOu should also check if the terms and conditions fit your need and that their don't say somethings allowed and their host dont allow it
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| Posted by InbrecoWS-James, 02-19-2012, 07:26 AM | | Check out simplexwebs.com or maybe tech-hosts.com good, solid providers.
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| Posted by ImageLogic, 02-19-2012, 09:32 AM | | Wow! A limitation on support? I've heard of premium support plans, but is it good business to either limit support or charge for any support that takes over a particular amount of time to deliver?
I'd expect customers to bridle at the notion that should the hosting vendor have difficulty running their server the customer will bear the cost.
For example, a server gets blacklisted because a reseller's client somewhere on the server misbehaved. So a customer files a trouble ticket and the hosting company can say "it will take us more than 15 minutes to figure out who the miscreant is so you will have to pay us"?
Or how about a vendor we struggled with who didn't speak English once the sale was made? Surely they could argue that getting a translation of a technical problem might take more than 15 minutes and therefore they didn't have to address the problem unless they were paid some as yet undetermined amount.
Which customer pays if the server gets hacked?
How much time would a vendor charge to read a trouble ticket saying the server is down? Which customer gets charged the time to bring the server back up? How can a customer reasonably be expected to keep track of the time spent by the vendor servicing support issues?
By it's nature support is required when the customer is at their most vulnerable. As a practical matter it's hard to estimate in advance how long it will take to resolve a support issue. Charging for support seems like a can of worms that would seem to be a breeding ground for ill-will.
You're right that CPanel, for all it's warts, can take the edge off user administration. Unsaid, but equally correct, is that some users are woefully ill equipped to administer a web site much less a reseller account. But is limiting the amount of support the best way to handle needy customers?
Unless the price was clearly low enough to offset an occasional support fee I would move on if I saw a TOS limiting support to 15 minutes. However, corporate purchasing engineers may not be the market for vendors with support fees.
Regards,
Aza
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| Posted by KCal, 02-19-2012, 10:36 AM | | I had the same experience - slow servers - at approx. 6:30 am and 5:00pm everyday I couldn't update my website. I called to inquire about what might be going on. The tech support guy told me the servers must be busy []... Another time I called because my WordPress blog was timing out it was so slow. I asked why the WordPress blog was so slow. He said that if I had chosen "their" blog, I wouldn't be experiencing the delays...[every hosting firm I know can support WordPress... what kind of an answer is that???] Also, my ranking in Alexa shot from 500Ks to 3.1 million...
On the positive side, when I left them, they were friendly and professional and refunded all that I had prepaid.
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| Posted by algentar, 02-19-2012, 11:15 AM | | As a customer, I just tell my experience in using their service.
Billing and support departments provide answers and quick solutions to complaints and questions.
They are friendly and polite. I am very comfortable using their services.
Thank you.
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| Posted by CrocWeb, 02-19-2012, 06:07 PM | | I think what he meant was that we respond within 15 minutes.
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| Posted by Haamid-GoodHosting, 02-26-2012, 05:53 AM | | Look for a company that not only sell resellers, but they sell shared hosting themselves and look at what they provide, for e.g. A company does ddos protection, get a reseller off them and your set for ddos attacks ^^
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| Posted by MNCHOST - Chris, 02-26-2012, 07:41 AM | | 1. stability + reliability (most important) ==> hostgator
2. support (second most important)==> Hostdime
3. price (least important) ==> hostdime
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