| Posted by shinyblue, 12-15-2004, 04:23 AM | | I have been doing reseller hosting for about 2 years and have about 300 accounts.
I'm experiencing a few problems with my current host, nothing too major but the support could be better.
I am considering whether to switch to another hosting company (hostgator), whom I like, except for a few details, such as they don't allow overselling at all with their reseller accounts, so it's not cost effective to do reselling with them.
I'm wondering if I should get a dedicated server, HG offers them for $174 a month. That's quite a bit more than I'm paying right now for my reseller accounts, but it would even out after a few years. Here are my questions though:
1. Is there any way to easily migrate my existing customers over?
2. How "managed" is a managed dedicated server? I don't know anything about installing apache or php or anything like that. I'm using WHM and Cpanel which I can handle fine, but I don't really want to be in the position of being able to mess up something major on my server. How does it work to have a managed dedicated server?
I'm looking for any feedback, advice, or experiences with converting a reseller hosting biz to one that uses a managed dedicated server.
Thanks everybody!
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| Posted by A|J, 12-15-2004, 05:06 AM | | If you are using WHM/Cpanel you are able to use the "move account" feature. I am assuming you don't have root access therefore you are probably going to have to move one account at a time. Make sure you are doing this on a stress free day with lots of time to spare. Things go wrong....
Also from the looks of it, you might want to go with a managed server provider --- I recommend The Planet.
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| Posted by Lebanon, 12-16-2004, 08:22 PM | | Converting to a dedicated server for non experienced could be a mess at the first few days , but it is mentioned in the previous post if you are intending to use WHM it wont be so much hard to move your accounts AFTER you finish installation and purchasing the Cpanel license .
First of all , you purchase the server with the OS installed such as Redhat , you can learn easily how to setup auto updates and what not to update except manually . You should also read a little more than you expect about troubleshooting as it is expected to face many error messages that would sound a big problem for the first sight .
After Cpanel is installed it can do MUCH WORK on your behalf including too much updates and including security features plus things you do not even have to learn about .
It would also install the PHP , Mysql and APACHE for you . ( Thats a relief if its your first time doing this )
After that moving your accounts and since you do not have the root access on your current server can be done using the WHM feature which uses FTP login access and can create the tarball for you and extract it again on your new server .
Or you can go right now on each user's cpanel ( which you can access currently using your reseller WHM ) and backup each account manually then download them to new server and you can use then Multiple restore feature ( but since you have 300 accounts THATS A LOT OF TIME TO FINISH ) better use the ftp feature .
Finally , and if it can come to help you could check our dedicated servers list and we can offer management for you for a minimal fee wether your purchase them from us or you decide to find your own dedicated server providors .
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| Posted by WHRKit, 12-17-2004, 10:28 AM | | I did migrate from a reseller account (cpanel) to my own dedicated server during summer. Make sure you get the server made secure the very first thing and use a few test domains to test everything out. The WHM backup/move functionality worked awesome for me. Only accounts with very large MySQL databases needed manual interaction. Everything else worked right out of the box after the move.
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| Posted by RofyHost, 12-17-2004, 10:52 AM | | Hello everybody,
Why don't you consider moving to a VPS first, it is cost effective and is nearly the same as a dedicated you can then try moving some accounts and if everything goes fine move all your reseller accounts,
I recommend powervps.com or vpscolo.com both have outstanding support and great uptime!
wish you the best of luck
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| Posted by UnifiedNet, 12-17-2004, 11:12 AM | | Why?
If you are ready to go dedicated then go dedicated. Clients hate nothing more than receiving e-mail stating the oh so famous lines.. "to better serve you we are moving your accounts to another server" Don't jump onto a VPS just to end up out growing that 2-6 months down the line to move your clients again!
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| Posted by RofyHost, 12-17-2004, 11:20 AM | | well as I understood, the point is that he is not ready to hundle a dedicated server for now that is why I suggested a VPS, he can have multiple VPSs anyways, he don't have to move to a dedicated until he is confortable with the WHM root access interface and decided to have all his clients on one server, that is my point of view
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| Posted by Karthick, 12-17-2004, 12:00 PM | | Err, this post makes no sense at all. If he can handle a VPS, then he can handle a dedicated too. He has 300 accounts, theres no point getting multiple VPS.
Get a managed dedicated server, and you should be alright.
Last edited by Karthick; 12-17-2004 at 12:04 PM.
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| Posted by RofyHost, 12-17-2004, 12:06 PM | | I agree with you Karthick, but what I am trying to say is that a VPS fee is much cheaper than a dedicated so he can start playing arround with a VPS instead of moving to a new reseller to prepare the move to a dedicated
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| Posted by Karthick, 12-17-2004, 12:10 PM | | It really depends on the host. Management is made a whole lot easier with WHM, but you need to know beyond that to run cPanel/WHM. cPanel/WHM sometimes breaks things and you need to go in and fix it. Though don't be too scared, If you're current on your backups, you should be okay.
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| Posted by Karthick, 12-17-2004, 12:16 PM | | Well, that's not how your first post reads, and your second post has recommendation for "multiple VPS", which would not be necessary. But yeah, it's a good idea to grab yourself a 2GB VPS to practice on.
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| Posted by buffhost, 12-17-2004, 01:13 PM | | Hello shinyblue,
I am like you! I've just ordered my first VPS with PowerVPS.
At this time, I'm not familiar with managing server...
But PowerVPS's support is great... they are ALWAYS there to help you and me for getting started with managing it.
I do also use WHM/cPanel and I have about 500 accounts.
The charge of MANAGED dedicated server is over $170/m, but you can have a VPS with 10GB storage about $45/m with PowerVPS.
Please let me know if you need any further information about PowerVPS which I'm using as my first experience.
Regards
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| Posted by Lebanon, 12-18-2004, 10:39 AM | | Have you forgetten that on VPS you hardly have a space for your clients to leave space for your backups ??? At least if he started on a dedicated server he could mount a space ( untill he is able to buy a secon server just for backups or a secondary HDD )
and he could fix all his backups on that mounted space !
When some one having 300 accounts and is ready to go dedicated he shouldnt go VPS , yes lmnop VPS sound cheaper from what your sayin ? NO , you said 10GB for 45$ , he can get a dedicated with 80GB HDD for double that price , now isnt that much more better ?
Again , He will have space for his clients , he could offer reseller accounts as well as just offering hosting , nevertheless he has at least 20GB free or 30GB free to mount and backup his files !
Or what the heck ? just buy a secondary HDD ( a lot would offer you that for only one time fee and not monthly ) And move on !
Yes he might pay extra 200$ first month , but so what ? He is saving for the whole year !
*I do not pretend to be mr know it all , but i *think* am right on this eventhough my english would fail me up there.
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| Posted by Karthick, 12-18-2004, 10:51 AM | | You miss the point. rofyhost suggested a VPS to practice on, before moving on to a dedicated server. By the way, I doubt a $90 server can hold 300 clients. He should be looking at atleast two servers, but then again it depends what sort of sites they are.
Last edited by Karthick; 12-18-2004 at 11:00 AM.
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| Posted by WMSYS.net, 12-18-2004, 11:38 AM | | I agree, if you have over 300 accounts and you have the money to make the move, then a dedicated server is the way to go. A dedicated server should not be hard to setup. You will only have to deal with dns changes to your hostname. I don't think you could screw it up, it will take some time to move all those accounts though, maybe a weekend you might need.
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| Posted by Lebanon, 12-18-2004, 11:40 AM | | Pardon me Karthick , i have not experienced a VPS in my life , I directly jumped to dedicated servers , but as i read (if am right) it is a virtual root , it is same practice .
Now if your point that the practice can be done on something cheaper than dedicated ( That you only mean instead of wasting 100$ to practice he can practice for less )
Let me suggest again , that the practice shouldnt take more than one month ... let me move on
1 Month on VPS around 50$
1 month on dedicated around 100$
So for his practice he will save about 50$ right ?
Cool , But after he practice and finds out he now is ready for dedicated then he have to MOVE again ( even if it only takes 12 hours service interruption or he can directly add A records and make no interruption for his clients again ) Is the work and trouble for moving and searching all over
Worth a 50$ savings ?
I doubt that anyone who is intending to run a business for a long time should worry about Practice Saving
Depending on which sites he is hosting , now since the others responded to him and suggested VPS , you tell me if VPS can hold em , why shouldnt a dedicated ????
Am not saying a VPS can , But a dedicated i think it can especially if most of these sites doesnt use mysql or have that traffic /
And i dont think they are because he is on a reseller account and its working fine
And i dont think they are because he is not on a reseller account and its working fine so a dedicated sounds better for him!
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| Posted by shinyblue, 12-18-2004, 05:30 PM | | Hi everyone - thanks for your replies!
Some clarifications - First, I'm a she, not a he.
Second, my clients are mostly very small sites without much traffic or data. Right now my clients take up about 5 GB of space - so an 80 GB server is a big leap, at current pace it would take several years to fill it.
What I hear people saying is that VPS and Dedicated have the same learning curve, but that I can purchase a smaller VPS than Managed Dedicated. Because of the fact that my volume is small that may be a good solution. Are there any other considerations I should have about a VPS vs a Dedicated?
I would still like some feedback on these questions.
a) from people who have made this transition, what did you do to make it easier for your clients? For yourself?
b) when the server goes down, are you then responsible for getting it back up, instead of the hosting company?
I'm worried about situations where the server is down, I have no idea why or it happened in the middle of the night, and I have to try to fix it and I have no idea what is wrong. Is this a valid fear? If so, how do people deal with it?
Thanks!
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| Posted by RofyHost, 12-18-2004, 05:45 PM | | Hello there,
I think VPS is definetly your best bet --> Affordable price + managed + you can practice in case your clients type changes.
to answer your questions:
1. now with 5mins at most 12 Hours DNS propagation, I don't think the move will really affect your customers, you just need to explain that you are moving to a new server then give them the new IP address and make the move, generally there will be 0 downtime
2. IF ever the managed server or VPS server goes down, you don't have to deal with technical stuff they will take care about you
I strongly recommend www.vpscolo.com or www.powervps.com if you are decided to go with VPS they both have outstanding prompt support and great uptime!!
All the best
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| Posted by Lebanon, 12-18-2004, 05:59 PM | | Why not having JUST A RESELLER ACCOUNT ?
5 giga aint much and a reseller account would release her from the duty of watching the server or any technical stuff
Also she can only worry about selling that way .!
Another thing , it is possible to move all clients without 1 second interruption for websites. A light difference for emails which will take a bit of time working out depending on which platform its is hosted right now.!
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| Posted by shinyblue, 12-18-2004, 08:40 PM | | Can someone clarify for me how I could transfer these account over? It looks like I would need to either
a) offer them a better price and have them transfer their account over and set it up on the new server themselves
or
b) what? How can I switch over these accounts all at once given that:
1. Their domains are all set with the nameservers that point to the old servers. I don't have access to their domain records to change their nameservers, as they all have different registrars.
2. I can't download all their accounts at once - I would need to download each and every one separately from Cpanel - with a large account that takes a while over DSL. And then make an account for them on the other server, and upload the tar backup. That seems like it would take a looong time.
3. Many of them have changed their passwords. When I create the new account for them on the other server, I'd need to enter their original password, so it would effectively be reset. So I'd need to notify each of them of that.
4. Finally, after I transfer all the accounts, I would need to change the nameserver IPs to point to the new servers.
It sounds like the whole process would take many hours, and I'd need to let them know to not edit their sites in the meanwhile or the changes might not carry over.
Any way to shorten this process?
I did see in Cpanel a way to FTP the tar backup to another server, but I couldn't find a way to restore from the file saved on the server, just from an Upload box.
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| Posted by WMSYS.net, 12-18-2004, 08:54 PM | | Go with a reseller account. It will be cheaper for you and you don't have to worry about a big overhead. If you want to sell resellers accounts than maybe you will have to go with the VPS. For $10/month you can 5GB of space. That isn't any overhead at all, I don't think it is.
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| Posted by shinyblue, 12-18-2004, 08:59 PM | | I already have a reseller account, and as I mentioned in the beginning I am having some problems with my provider. And I really doubt there is a reputable company from which you can buy a reseller account of 5GB for $10 a month. Besides if I switched providers I would be faced with all the above transfer issues and would be gaining nothing in terms of better customizability.
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| Posted by Lebanon, 12-18-2004, 09:04 PM | | shinyblue , dont make it look like that , its not that big headache , your hosted on Cpanel as you said :
--I would need to download each and every one separately from Cpanel --
So you could move to another Cpanel host , and then those accounts can be moved for you easily , if you have your WHM then it can be done without knowing their passwords !
Also you do not need to know their registrar domain passwords , cause simply all domains are pointed to your dns no ?
Then you change those name servers IP to the new IP and they all go with you .
I have done dozens of account moves for clients and i can help you out , and out of charge if you need to .!
Let me know if you would need that help , all you need to do that is your WHM or Access to the current accounts now PLUS your Domain password which holds the Name servers to modify IPs for your dns .
I think its easy , or maybe because i have practiced that a bit before ! heh
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| Posted by shinyblue, 12-18-2004, 09:10 PM | | Lebanon, can you clarify how I could create a new account for them on the new server without knowing their password?
Or how WHM would help in this instance, as I see nothing in my WHM about transfering accounts?
I do agree the DNS change of my nameservers should be sufficient to repoint their domains to the new servers. But I'm not clear on a way to easily transfer the data or the account details from one WHM account to another.
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| Posted by Lebanon, 12-18-2004, 09:14 PM | | No you dont , but your future root can help you out using your current WHM .
WHM already can login to all accounts using its own password without knowing the password of your clients , so you can back up all your sites at the time using that WHM, next your future root can just download all these files ONE time from his server which can only take 10 minutes as a max , then using his root feature on CPanel can do : Restore multiple backups
Ofcourse he should have placed downloads on /home or /home2 for example or whatever he specified as base on cpanel , then with another click he restores all accounts
( including their passwords which none of you know , and they emails and passwords and everything )
Thats it !
I can help you out on the procedure , but as for the new hosting company you need the root to help you or you will have to do what you said which takes hours !
In small words , your WHM and the new ROOT , can get it done !
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| Posted by Karthick, 12-18-2004, 09:47 PM | | You somewhat got the point this time, but let me explain better. How do you know she is comfortable with a dedicated? What if she got a dedicated P4 for $200 / Month and then decides it isn't for her? Okay, well you can find out without wasting all that money, by simply getting a small VPS. A 2GB / 30GB VPS from vpscolo will cost her just $15 or so.
Now, she doesn't have to move her sites to it, she can test it out, break things, fix things and generally see how it is. So basically, you can keep the VPS seperate from anything to do with her business, just for some learning experience, and just to see what she is getting herself into. Let her experience the features of WHM, how they break, and how it is to be fixed. Certainly this is not to be done in a live environment.
Hope you understand now.
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| Posted by Lebanon, 12-18-2004, 10:01 PM | | Karthick , you absolutly cleared your point out !
i must admit i havent seen it that way :-)
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| Posted by RofyHost, 12-19-2004, 07:08 AM | | Hello there,
just to answer your questions:
bad idea, you can easily transfer the accounts yourself, letting your cutsomers do will reflect your technical weakness which is not good for your customers confidence of your hosting.
Are your clients using your OWN name servers ?? if so no problems at all and no action is requiered from your customers, you will have to change the name servers IP address and that is all,
if not, well this is a small problem, and then you have to keep your reseller account for a while and move your clients slowly as you have to wait for their interaction in chaging the name servers
You don't have to, from your reseller WHM enter each account's CPANEL and specify a full backup to a remote FTP then with your VPS you can easily use SSH to restore your accounts moving the fullbackups files to your /home partition and restoring those account from your VPS WHM, also I think vpscolo.com or powervps.com kind support can assist you in this if you give them your reseller password
when restoring the way I described above, you don't need to know their passwords or to change them!
Indeed! specially if your clients have active site content such as forums.
you can, go to cpanel backup menu and chose generate or download a full backup, you can then find FTP to another server from the list menu
All the best,
Last edited by RofyHost; 12-19-2004 at 07:11 AM.
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