| Posted by crazyfish, 12-14-2004, 12:26 AM | | Hey, I would like to see who is canadian on these forums and who is some sort of web hosting company or had experience in them, I have a feel it is a very different market with different needs so lets hear your experiences.
thanks
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| Posted by writespeak, 12-14-2004, 03:57 AM | | I'm a Canadian with accounts with Aussie Hosts on US servers. I like being international.
From what I've seen of Canadian hosts (and I haven't looked recently), their smallest accounts tend to offer a limited number of email accounts, and if you want more email accounts or PHP or SSI support, you need to go up a category even if you don't need the MB.
While I'm not thinking of changing web hosts, I'm interested in knowing more about the Canadian market too. If it's different, what makes it different?
Lois
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| Posted by Captian_Spike, 12-14-2004, 06:30 AM | | Depends on what you mean by ¨Canadian¨. Many Canadian owned businesses have servers located in the US. As far as the market, its not that different when it comes to shared hosting. I host alot of Canadians and they don´t really differ in their needs. Dedicated/CoLo market is very different (and expensive).
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| Posted by jmweb, 12-14-2004, 09:50 AM | | I am Canadian
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| Posted by STCFX, 12-14-2004, 09:52 AM | | Because I am ..... Canadian!"
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| Posted by hosteazy, 12-14-2004, 10:38 AM | | We are Canadian and we service clients from all over the world
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| Posted by Lubby, 12-14-2004, 10:48 AM | | I am Canadian. But if you want a Canadian business with Canadian servers as well check out http://www.digitallyjustified.com
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| Posted by sightz, 12-14-2004, 11:45 AM | | I'm in Toronto
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| Posted by HostingDotExpress, 12-14-2004, 03:39 PM | | 100% bonfide, Grade A, Canadian
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| Posted by johnsimpson, 12-14-2004, 03:48 PM | | I'll be a Canadian in about a month.
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| Posted by porcupine, 12-14-2004, 05:44 PM | | And no, I dont know Jack from Canada, but I am Canadian .
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| Posted by JimDixon, 12-14-2004, 07:25 PM | | Hi Lois,
The difference is, too many Canadian Hosts will put a price tag on every feature they offer, rent out space at incredibly high costs, and are not ashamed to bilk their friends and neighbours. For some, that spoil the broth, they think that their fellow Canadians think that red line on the map that separates our 2 country's means they should only buy Canadian. Plus, there is the exchange. Why do you think so many Canadian hosts charge in US dollars?
Canadians, and I am one, are a trusting bunch but, but trust me, many can't be trusted
Jim
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| Posted by porcupine, 12-14-2004, 07:48 PM | | Most Canadian hosts bill in USD, because just as you say, the red line doesen't seperate the two, we want US customers, and international customers, who recognize the USD as the global currency.
You have to take to heart that Canadian hosts also have completely different prices of doing business, just go compare pricing on a colocated, or dedicated server in Canada to one in the US and the puzzle will start to fit together in your head .
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| Posted by MonteCarloHosting, 12-14-2004, 08:31 PM | | Hello, I'm also a Canadian!
personally, I haven't seen any "good" webhosts in Canada other than Doreo (they are in Alberta, Calgary I believe). It seems, like has already been stated, most Canadian hosts are charging more than their American counterparts. The only company I've had experience with is my ISP... MTS (Manitoba Telecom Services) but their servers run on ADSL, have around 75% uptime, and cost $9.95 cdn/mnth for 30mb of space, 500mb b/w... I wouldn't recommend them at any rate. If you are looking for a good, reputable host in Canada, try doreo... I personally don't have much experience, but they do host phpBB.com ;-)
Christian
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| Posted by crazyfish, 12-14-2004, 08:44 PM | | 75% uptime is bad, I could probably get that running a server in my house
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| Posted by Website Rob, 12-14-2004, 09:17 PM | | Although we operate from Canada, Calgary Alberta to be exact , we Lease Servers from US Data Centers. Seems that Server/Bandwidth pricing is still too high here in Canada in order for us to be Internationally competitive.
One thing we don't have to worry about though, is the difference between CAD / USD currency. We offer both and it would seem that the Majority of our Canadian Clients do prefer to pay in Canadian dollars.
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| Posted by JimDixon, 12-14-2004, 09:46 PM | | I had to laugh earlier today. I was out looking for a better host and was checking out one. I used their "Dales Contact" email and posed a couple of questions. Their email was bounced back, so I used tech support email - same thing. So, I thought - I've wasted my morning so far - so I opened their Live Chat. It asked for a Name and Question, to which I answered both, SUBMITted and aited - about 10 minutes. A "Support" person came online and asked qhat my questions was - same as I just gave, but I repeated it and said that emails to their site were being bounced back as undeliverable. I was told to wait a sec. About 10 minutes later I typed 'Hello?" and 5 minutes after that, Chat was closed by support. I thought OK, the bonehead (he is now) clicked th wrong button - Close instead of Send so I reopened the LiveChat again, entered my name and "Question" and Submitted - waited about 5 minutes, was greeted by the tech who promply closed the session. Repeat - I like to help - Same thing again. So, I did some searching, found their phone number and on my LD charge, called them, woke someone up who sleepily said "Yea - ah (hostname)" I asked if I was speaking to someone at (hostname) and he said "Yea - ah - wel I'm the owner of (hostname) - what do ya want?" I told him I was doing him a favour calling long distance to tell him that his company email was being bounced back. "Yea - well that's probably cause our email box is full - I'll ah - yea - K, I'll tell the guys to clean it out" So then I went on to tell him that the Live Chat was messing up too. "K - I'll have ta look inta that. Is there anything else?" I said no, and wrote that Host off my list of ever being a potential possible longterm relationship with my money.
Some times, a long distance call tells a lot and saves even more.
Jim
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| Posted by crazyfish, 12-14-2004, 09:55 PM | | no offense but was this a canadian company? Or is it just the ramblings of a canadian? lol
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| Posted by porcupine, 12-15-2004, 12:07 AM | | You woke me up @!*#(
...
J/K
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| Posted by Martinez, 12-15-2004, 12:23 AM | |
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| Posted by JimDixon, 12-15-2004, 12:47 AM | | If you are asking me that question - it is as it happened. I won't name the company, or should I say name of the host - I doubt they are a company. The Internet curtain allows individuals to become companies, a whole 'Support Team", graduates extrordinaire of the Martian Institute of Higher Tecnology - or anything they want to type under their nome de plume. The reaction I got from calling the "Host" told what I was dealing with - some guy that bought bulk from a server, or invested his paper route savings in a template, some web space and is an unsigned affiliate selling off space. Like I said, a phone call can save time and money - in my case I save money and probably a lot of frustration.
As for rambling - I'm a Canadian but am only just learnig how to ramble by studying the pros. Once I have a grasp of how, I'll post back and test it out on you and you can grade me on my rambalese - K?
Be cool.
Jim
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| Posted by ArunK, 12-15-2004, 12:47 AM | | I used to live in Vancouver when I was little so I guess you could say I'm part Canadian. . Does that count?
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| Posted by crazyfish, 12-15-2004, 12:50 AM | | want to learn how to ramble watch TSN and Gary Bettman speak lol
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| Posted by mrzippy, 12-15-2004, 01:22 AM | | What billing system do you use to handle dual currency?
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| Posted by Website Rob, 12-15-2004, 01:26 AM | | Although we use WhoisCart, after checking 3 different ones it works the best for our needs, it doesn't really matter which one is used. A seperate License has to purchased for each currency used. You can get by with one License using WhoisCart, but it's a bit tricky to setup. They can help best with that.
And would it be 'mrzippy' from long ago days with a Hoster that has "1/one" in their name? If so, I hope things are much better for you these days.
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| Posted by mrzippy, 12-15-2004, 01:31 AM | | Ah, I see. How do you deal with the "double backend database" problem? (ie: Are they in this database?.. nope.. ok, must be the other one...)
Nope. Not sure who that mrzippy was.. but it wasn't me.
Cheers!
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| Posted by Website Rob, 12-15-2004, 01:47 AM | | There is no "double-backend" which is why you (normally) need two Licenses.
For the sake of Clarity, each currency needs its own URL and backend DB, although, you can get by with using one SSL Cert.
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| Posted by writespeak, 12-15-2004, 02:10 AM | | JimDixon wrote:
>> The difference is, too many Canadian Hosts will put a price tag on every feature they offer,
That was the main thing that got me looking elsewhere. At one local web hosting company, for example, the smallest package started at $10-something a month (Canadian $$, I think). To have PHP, Perl, and more than 5 email addresses, I'd have had to go up to the next package at $13-something a month, and mySQL still wasn't included. I have a reseller package (Aussie Hosts, US server) for 10 sites with all of the above for about the same as I would've had to pay for one account with the Canadian host that was recommended to me.
>> rent out space at incredibly high costs,
But are web hosting prices higher here? I understand charging more if they cost more, but I don't understand charging more for features that don't cost them any more. If the only reason is to jack up the costs, well, I'm glad I'm hosting elsewhere.
>> For some, that spoil the broth, they think that their fellow Canadians think that red line on the map that separates our 2 country's means they should only buy Canadian.
Well, there is the "buy Canadian" thinking. Most or all countries have that -- support the local economy if you can.
>> Plus, there is the exchange. Why do you think so many Canadian hosts charge in US dollars?
Because it's easier to have costs in one international currency for everyone.
Last summer I put together a price list in Canadian and US dollars. The exchange rate has changed so much that I have to redo the list.
>> Canadians, and I am one, are a trusting bunch but, but trust me, many can't be trusted
That's true about people in any country. I've lived here for most of my life, and ethics are very important to me. Most of us learn how to assess character and make sure there's a way out if things don't work out. When a web host has a forum, you get a really good chance to see the owner(s) in action and observe how they respond to problems.
Deciding whether or not to buy local is one thing, but ethics don't have borders.
Lois
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| Posted by cartika-andrew, 12-15-2004, 03:37 AM | | You sound like 1 bitter Canadian - Do you think that a larger percentage of Canadian hosts operate this way vs US or International for that matter?
Because many US and International customers demand this. We have priced all of our offerings in Canadian Dollars - and believe me, its a headache - I have thought many times of switching everything to US dollars - BUT - a good percentage of our customer base is from Canada, and Canadians like paying in Canadian dollars. Funny thing - Lots of our friends in the US also like paying in Canadian dollars
I simply cannot believe this is coming from a Canadian. On the whole, people of Canada are honest, hardworking, polite and respectful - where the heck is this comment coming from? Dont you think this is a "people" statement vs a Canadian statement?
Last edited by cartika-andrew; 12-15-2004 at 03:41 AM.
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| Posted by cartika-andrew, 12-15-2004, 03:39 AM | | You cant just compare speeds and feeds. What is the relative uptime SLA, what is the relative backup policies being offered? What is the relative support being offered?
It is of course possible that the deal you were being offered was simply not a good one - but, if they were referred, does it not stand to reason that they were a good host? You may have been only getting 5 emails, but what if you were receiving 99.999% uptime?
Price in this business means nothing. What you are receiving and what you are expecting to receive are the only things that matter.
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| Posted by writespeak, 12-15-2004, 04:03 AM | | CartikaHosting wrote:
>>You cant just compare speeds and feeds.
Very true. Too many people look at price only and end up on a hunt for a new web host as a result.
>> What is the relative uptime SLA, what is the relative backup policies being offered? What is the relative support being offered?
In the situation I was referring to, I had a site with a Canadian web host that was getting out of the web hosting business. They transferred their accounts to this other Canadian web host. I decided instead to move the site to the non-Canadian host I already had another account with.
Since the costs were so different, pricing was a big factor, but not the only one. Even if the costs had been the same, because the site had to be moved somewhere, the choices were (a) a host that another host recommended or (b) a host I already knew and had experienced excellent support with, and whose policies and uptime worked for me. Of course I chose (b). The fact that I would've had to pay so much more to get the same from the Canadian host made the decision even easier.
>> It is of course possible that the deal you were being offered was simply not a good one - but, if they were referred, does it not stand to reason that they were a good host? You may have been only getting 5 emails, but what if you were receiving 99.999% uptime?
I had no reason to doubt that they provided quality service and good uptime. I was frustrated at having to pay so much more for what were standard features (unlimited email accounts, PHP, mySQL) with the other host. Why would these items be extra when they're standard with many budget accounts elsewhere?
>> Price in this business means nothing. What you are receiving and what you are expecting to receive are the only things that matter.
I've had some bad experiences along the way, and good support is at the top of my list of needs. If you can get/provide that along with other standard goodies at a good price, I'm happy.
Price doesn't necessarily correlate with quality. I think we agree on that.
Lois
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| Posted by BF-Gary, 12-15-2004, 04:49 AM | | Canadian here
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| Posted by Byte, 12-15-2004, 11:14 AM | | Canadian here too, in Calgary.
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| Posted by 8inet-Johnathan, 12-15-2004, 11:58 AM | | I'm canadian but i use US companys becauuse i find for a reseller i'd be paying 3 times as much in CAD for simaler plan in USD
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| Posted by JimDixon, 12-15-2004, 12:47 PM | | Of course not. I'm not such a lemming to think that if one Canadian is as nice and trusting as me that every last one must be the same. I live in th real world and know there are good and bad people everywhere and a red line on a map doesn't change that - people are people and on this real world, earth, one cannot try to change what is by viewing life with myopic flowery, rose coloured glasses. Believe it. Since I am born Canadian and have more than a hundred years behind that and the balance from Scotland, it is, as you ask, a "Canadian-statement". What - you didn't see that I said "many Canadians" instead of 'all' or 'most'? Believe it - it's the real world and contrary to what goes on outside of that sand hole, there are some Canadians that would con their own mother - Canadians are people - not a dream state.
May all your Christmases be white.
Jim
Last edited by JimDixon; 12-15-2004 at 12:51 PM.
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| Posted by pixelvibe, 12-16-2004, 02:46 PM | | Canadian here! All of our servers are US based though. We are considering offering clients a Canadian service at a premium because its pricier.
I miss hockey!
*Oh, and on a personal note to all americans, I was on a trip there a few weeks back: your beer tastes like dirty water! LOL!
Canadian beer makes me proud to be a canadian!
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| Posted by johnsimpson, 12-16-2004, 05:17 PM | | I'll second pixelvibe on the beer! However, U.S. Wine is pretty good and in some cases better than the Canadian one's I have tried.
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| Posted by pixelvibe, 12-16-2004, 05:36 PM | | Thats fair. The only decent wine that this country produces is from the niagara & surrounding region. Pelee Island has a terrific gewurztraminer. On the otherhand, woodbridge estates has some great calif. whites.
But american's still can't make icewine the way we can!
Have you tried the icewine & brandy mixed together? serve it on the rocks. Awesome!
But we're getting a little off topic! lol!
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| Posted by crazyfish, 12-16-2004, 05:43 PM | | gotta love california ice wine mmmm freezing the grapes in a freezer just brings up all kinds of thoughts of quality LOL. I just finished a wine course at college, its great to see that it is a course for someone who is in Network specialist program hahaha oh welll
Mmmmm Keiths
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| Posted by johnsimpson, 12-16-2004, 05:45 PM | | Sorry, the icewine is too sweet for me.
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| Posted by crazyfish, 12-16-2004, 05:46 PM | | i can't stand wine, I leave that stuff to the girlfriend
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| Posted by threeohsix, 12-16-2004, 08:17 PM | | Raises hand*
Canadian here too, but like most our servers are down in the States.
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| Posted by JimDixon, 12-16-2004, 11:33 PM | | Of course you haven't tried any of the World-wide award winning wines from the Okanagan Valley (on youe map of Canada, it's BC Interior) - then again - we only produce wines for those class of Provinces that know how to appreciate a fine wine - no offense, as we appreciate a good host server that charges a fair fee for services provided - now - that's back on topic
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| Posted by Penhall, 12-17-2004, 12:20 AM | | Ditto!
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| Posted by writespeak, 12-17-2004, 01:07 AM | | A few thoughts from following this thread....
I don't want to put down the Canadian hosts who provide excellent service for costs based on Canadian prices. As CartikaHosting wrote, "You cant just compare speeds and feeds." I was never trying to do that; I just happened to find a host with good service *and* low pricing, who happens not to be in Canada. I've been impressed with the help that Canadians provide in the ecommerce forum whenever the subject of services for Canadians comes up.
It must be difficult to provide hosting at competitive costs when the servers just across the border cost less. There is a market, though, for those who place a priority on having a server in their own country. Web hosts also have the option of being Canadian companies with servers in the US -- or in both countries. I'm strongly patriotic, and I like to support my country's economy, but "Canadian" isn't the best answer for all Canadians all the time.
Concerning "who is Canadian," in my web host's forum, there's the option to add where you're from in your profile. This info appears below your username next to your posts if you add it. I'd like to see this option in this forum; where we live is often relevant to the content of our posts.
Lois
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| Posted by JimDixon, 12-17-2004, 01:37 AM | | Hi Lois,
I prefer, myself, in any Forum not to make it too obvious as to where I reside. Unfortunately, people are still human no matter what, or where they live and many still attach a label or will classify someone simply because of where they live therebye prejudicing the post as they read it.
If someone wants to know about me, they can click on the [PROFILE] icon under my posts, or yours, or his... If we, I or you want to remain somewhat alloof, it will become obvious in the Profile.
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| Posted by writespeak, 12-17-2004, 01:46 AM | | Yes, we all have our preferences. That's why I suggested it as an option. Those who don't want to indicate where they live could leave that field blank.
This thread has been interesting, but are we going to associate the country with the posters who posted that they're in Canada? Most likely we won't remember if we see them posting again in another thread. For those who are fine about telling the world where they live (their country, anyway), being able to display the country under the username would make it easier to keep the name and country connected.
Lois
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| Posted by WebShaman, 12-17-2004, 02:44 AM | | The IP pings to servers in the New York / New Jersey area owned by Pegasus Web Technologies.
24 9 4 69.72.236.1 - digitallyjustified
Network id#:9
OrgName: Pegasus Web Technologies
OrgID: PWT-5
Address: 1719 Route 10E
Address: Suite 220
City: Parsippany
StateProv: NJ
PostalCode: 07054
Country: US
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| Posted by VanHost, 12-17-2004, 04:55 AM | | Correct, our main website is currently hosted on a server in Fortress ITX's datacenter, however, this is not our only server and we are in the midst of major server migrations to our DC in Vancouver BC. Thus, making us more Canadian
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| Posted by HostingDotExpress, 12-17-2004, 10:27 AM | | Okanagan wine is some of the best in the world.
I don't believe it matters where people live in the world so long as the service is superb. And about supporting my country, I don't keep everything 100% Canadian because i'm patriotic - I do it because it's cheaper and convenient. Canadian pricing becomes more competitive everyday. Our servers are sitting 15 minutes from our office in Kelowna, not across the country, and I have access to them 24/7.
If it was cheaper, and made proper business sense i'd host from the states as well. In fact the only way to make money here in the Okanagan is to be involved in the tourist industry, or build a business on the internet. They don't call it Kelownafornia for nothing....
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| Posted by JimDixon, 12-17-2004, 01:27 PM | | I thought the only way to make money in the 'Valley' is if one got elected or worked for CORD. Nice costs on the 101 site. Still, for the same price ($8.99 CDN) in the US, I can get 1 Gig of space, all the software 101 offers, and WHM and unlimited Domains, sub-domains, FTP and on goes the list.
However, the americans could get more for their $1.00 going to 101 but for Moi, my Loonie buys more space, BW, and the same bells and whistles and the B&W's are just glitz anyway. While they are of use, everyone offers them and those that don't, are gone fast.
What I would like to see hosts do is list some of the sites they host - i.e., via the pruchase agreement ask the customer if they are OK with the Host listing their web on the Hosts sales-pitch pages AND if they are willing to be contacted by prospective cutomers.
Of course, the first thing I would do is DNSreport several of the sites to see how well their Host has them set up. It's only after propegation that we, the consumer of space, can DNSRrfeport our own sites to find out what all is wrong.
I'm going start a separate thread on this (Host should expose themselves) - I prefer the opportunity to go beyond a Hosts template'ed site and see for myself how their customers are set up - after all, the salesman doesn't often tell the customer what is wrong with the product.
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| Posted by frankiee, 12-17-2004, 03:30 PM | | Canadian
Montreal
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| Posted by HostingDotExpress, 12-17-2004, 04:45 PM | | Yeah, that too
This may somewhat explain why 80% of our clients hail from down south. That, and the fact we have fewer people up here.
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| Posted by portal, 12-17-2004, 10:50 PM | | Canadian here. We also operate our own little datacenter as Myles would call it from Peer1's room here in Toronto.
*I AM CANADIAN!*
We also charge in Canadian Dollars vs. US dollars. We mostly concentrate on the local market, but we welcome international consumers just as well.
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| Posted by bizwired, 12-18-2004, 01:17 AM | | Damn proud to be a Canadian here
Sorry it's late and I need to go to bed lol!
Just wanted to voice my pride! One more time for Canada
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| Posted by porcupine, 12-18-2004, 01:25 AM | | Dont quote me on something I wouldn't call it
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| Posted by portal, 12-18-2004, 01:47 AM | | You want logs?
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| Posted by porcupine, 12-18-2004, 02:29 AM | | Of me calling your cabinet a Data Center? heh sure
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