| Posted by sammasati, 08-23-2001, 06:36 AM | | Has anyone had experience migrating clients between Reselling Providers, of from a Reselling Provider to your own Co-located servers?
What is the procedure?
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| Posted by thinkbig, 08-23-2001, 03:59 PM | | yes before you lose a few customers. I will do the same if my host does not smarten up..
let me know if you find a better hosting bizzz.
Peter R.
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| Posted by Chicken, 08-23-2001, 07:51 PM | | Basically you'd do it just like you were moving one site from one server to another. Leave the current accounts alone, as is for now. Set up the accounts on the new server, email, scripts, etc. Test, when ok, switch DNS to point accounts to new server. I'd suggest keeping the other one active just for a bit to be particular there are no problems. Shortly, kill off the other account if all is well and you're done.
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| Posted by sammasati, 08-23-2001, 09:32 PM | | Chicken,
Do you know if I would do this in my own DNS tables, at NetworkSolutions, both, or what? I've never mangaged DNS before, but I don't want things to get screwed up. Just signed my first major site maintenance contract. They have 15-20 sites I will be managing and I don't want them to have to deal with the paperwork of moving domaind through NetworkSoluitons.
Any words of wisdom?
Ryan
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| Posted by Chicken, 08-24-2001, 01:51 AM | | So the plan is to move the 15-20 sites onto one reseller from another? If you are moving domains from one host to another, it may depend on exactly how the new host handles things, but in general, if your new host handles DNS then you'd submit the domain name for them to DNS and put on the new server. You'll be able to upload the site via an IP, or server name and create a mirror site.
Once that is all working, you'd then submit the change at the registrar (you mentioned NetSol), and update the nameservers, switching them to the new ones of your new host. How this is handled will depend on how they've set up the domain at the registrar, either mail-forms or password access of the details. Even if it is mail-forms, you can submit the change for them and in the end they will only have to hit 'reply' to an email and send it back (authorizing the modification).
Basically, you'd just repeat this for all of the domains. If there is something specific you are wondering, mention it, as this is all somewhat general info.
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| Posted by sammasati, 08-24-2001, 03:28 AM | | Chicken,
So there is no way for me to make the transfer transparent for them? They would still need to reply to the transfer request? I was hoping for a situation where this activity could be invisible to the client. Possible or not?
Ryan
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| Posted by Chicken, 08-24-2001, 04:24 AM | | Unless you have access to modify the nameservers for the domain, then they'd know. If you can modify the domain info, then you'd be set. Another option for you would be to keep the nameservers constant, meaning use your own.
By 'your own' it could mean free DNS services such as mydns.com or zonedit.com (5 domains, then paid). There are others as well, or you could set up your own (of course). This would allow you to keep the nameservers constant and make changes as needed to DNS without them being involved. The domains would have to be modified to the DNS' nameservers at least this time.
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| Posted by sammasati, 08-24-2001, 04:40 AM | | So let me see if I have this right.
Take the three reseller providers I am talking about in the other thread: VenturesOnline, HositngMatters, and Hostiva. I think they all provided custom nameservers for their resellers. If I had these ns1 and ns2, and my clients were registered with me as their DNS I could move them with out their involvement? How would this work?
Ryan
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| Posted by Chicken, 08-24-2001, 12:23 PM | | Well, I'm not sure you've got it quite yet... Here are the issues you have to deal with, and this is only for one domain, but you can repeat this for all domains. Most of this you might already know, but...
At the registrar where the domain is registered, a modification to the nameservers must be made. The nameservers would be ns1.something.com & ns2.something.com (or similar). If you do not have access to change this information for each domain, then there is no way you could make changes without them knowing about it.
What you could do is ask them if it would be possible to be given access (permission) to make changes to this information. This is at least one possibility.
I'm not exactly particular what you mean by, "and my clients were registered with me as their DNS..."
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| Posted by sammasati, 08-24-2001, 03:24 PM | | Let me try and take a real life example, I'll use ***** since that is the place I am running away from right now.
***** has the following info in their WhoIs lookup:
Now, as the owners of the domain servers, could they change NOC's and move all their clients to a new bank of computers without their interaction?
If so and they provided me with my own name servers i.e. ns1.myhostingcompany.com, an my name servers are listed as the name servers on record, could I move my clients off of *****s computers and on to say VenturesOnline with out the customers interaction? Could I just send out a genral email saying something like:
"We are updating our servers to a more advanced network operations center to continually provide better service blah blah blah ..."
And then some how make the change?
Is this possible? Where would I start? Are there instructions somewhere on this type of procedure?
Ryan
P.S.
In a way this brings me around to a question I was asking in the thread ***** & Swithching Reseller Providers? By maintaining my own name servers could I provide reselling at three diferent Reseller Providers and keep the same ns1 and ns2 for all of them? For instance, could I resell for a Unix provider, a Windows provider, and a Mac provider, and have all of those come under my same company name servers?
If so would it matter where the name servers were parked?
Ryan
P.P.S
Sorry if it seems I am asking too many question, its just I feel really burned by *****, and don't want to make the same mistake, and I want to get out of there before my thirty day peirod is up.
Ryan
Last edited by sammasati; 08-24-2001 at 03:34 PM.
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| Posted by cactus, 08-24-2001, 05:09 PM | | Here's how I do it.
I used 3 hosts and be a reseller for them. So I need 3 domain names in order to get my own nameservers from the 3 hosts.
1)Host A = abc.com and I have my own nameservers which is ns1.abc.com & ns2.abc.com. and say I have 20 clients.
2)Host B = bbc.com and I have my own nameservers which is ns1.bbc.com & ns2.bbc.com and say that I have 15 clients.
3)Host C = cbc.com and I have my name servers which is ns1.cbc.com & ns2.cbc.com and I have 25 clients.
One day Host A goes bankrupt or just disappeared into the twilight zone so what will happen to your clients on Host A?
Quite simple, just sign up with Host B as a reseller and use your domain which is abc.com and get your own nameservers[ns1.abc.com & ns2.abc.com] again with Host B and moved all your clients files to Host B and maybe inform your clients as you mentioned "We are upgrading....."
Most nameservers changes may take 24 to 48 hours to propagate before it's updated, so for this method your customers are not aware that you are actually changing host but you may have problems with the emails so it's advisable to choose Hosts with similar OS and control panel for resellers and clients.
I always look for Hosts with similar Control Panel(WHM) for resellers and Cpanel for clients, in case of any problems, I can easily move all my affected clients from one host to another without much problems.
I hope the above may give you an example and that's I how I do it. As they say " Don't put all your eggs in one basket" I guess it's true for resellers.
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| Posted by cactus, 08-24-2001, 05:33 PM | | Sorry I forgot to mentioned, As they say "Prevention is better than cure" so you need to keep backup files on your computer harddisk or on some servers just in case your Hosts suddenly disappeared and you cannot access their server.
How are you going to transfer the clients' files? Always have some backups of your own as the Host is not responsible for losts data/crash , better read their TOS carefully and keep a printed copy of their TOS in case of any dispute that may arise.
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| Posted by cactus, 08-24-2001, 06:04 PM | | Another issue is ... you have paid quite a sum to the Host that did not honour their commitments, so don't be afraid, report to your credit card company/bank and ask for a full chargeback on everything (money) that you paid explaining the reasons and most of the time the cc processing company will have to refund it if they checked and found that the host does not exists anymore.
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| Posted by sammasati, 08-24-2001, 06:13 PM | | Cactus,
Thanks for all the great advise. I think that makes things a lot more clear. You mentioned possible delays in their email, aside from backing up/transfering their files how would I move their email services so they kept all the same email accounts logins, passwords etc?
Would I need to be on a dedicated envoronment to be able to do this?
Ryan
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| Posted by Chicken, 08-24-2001, 06:22 PM | | Well, you aren't exactly comparing apples with apples here. Yes ***** has four nameservers, but they have complete control over them...
When you say, "...and they provide me with my own nameservers..." you have to realize that you aren't being provided with actual nameservers. What they are doing is aliasing their nameservers.
You *may* have access to set up DNS zone files for domains that aren't hosted with the actual host you have the nameservers with, *but* more likely, you will have limited access, or none at all.
I don't know how automated these resellers are, but some are so automated that when you add a domain, it chooses an IP address, sets up the account on the server (with the domain you've entered), and sets up DNS all in one shot. I doubt you'd be able to modify where the domain points to (DNS for the domain) with this type of set up.
Even less automated setups would give you limited to no control nor access to the actual DNS zone record so that you could make modifications.
What you need is access to a DNS manager of sorts. Somewhere you can log in, add a domain, specify the IPs of the domain, etc. You should ask your host what (if any) direct DNS record control you will have.
If you were maintaining actual nameservers, this would be correct. Your issue is whether you can set up a domain on resellerhost-1 and point that domain to resellerhost-2. If you can find a host that allows you access to a DNS manager, you should be able to use that host (and the nameservers that are set up), for all of your domains and pointing needs.
This is why I mentioned services such as mydns.com or zoneedit.com (plus others like them). Although this would be your main control center (so to speak), I'm not sure if they offer personalized nameservers (again, really just an alias), and if so, what the cost would be.
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| Posted by cactus, 08-24-2001, 11:36 PM | | Hi, sammasati,
Chicken pretty much covered DNS on actual and conical/aliasing nameservers.
1)As regards to dedicated servers, yes your Host will know all info about the clients/resellers. I don't own a server so I won't be able to help.
2)As a reseller, always have a sign -up form where the client enters their details including username/password and that info will be send via email to you and make a printed copy for your records and afte that send them to a redirect page or directly to your cc proccessing provider for payment. This method helps a reseller as you have the clients' info(username/password) and most of the time they are unlikely to change password. After receiving the info from your cc processing company, then proceed to create a new account and email all details to the client.
3)As regards to email setting you can always set to "catch all email" and maybe work extra by visiting your clients' site and note any emails they are using and add it for them.
4)Some reseller control panels allow for reseller to login to your clients' cpanel and all the info is there for you view and to keep a record just in case you may need to migrate to another server with all your clients.
5)Not having a server and as a reseller has its pros and cons, I don't wish to host more than 25 clients site on a certain server, I prefer to spread my risks and have many hosts provider and each servicing not more than 25 clients.
Hope this helps.
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| Posted by sammasati, 08-25-2001, 04:06 PM | | I checked out these two services. mydns.com seems to be geard only to those who want to manage their own domains, not for a hosting reseller to manage their clients.
zoneedit.com seems like it is more for resellers, but it is not a very user friendliy site. it will take a while to decipher it.
Thanks for the poiters.
Some thing else I have thought of, if I am listed as the technical contact could I make these changes regardles of the status of my name servers, or would the administrative contact still have to verify.
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| Posted by sammasati, 08-25-2001, 04:13 PM | | For resellers not on a dedicated machine is there any way to get access to the clients email directory where all there email prefs are stored and copy that over to the new server? Do you have any experience with VenturesOnline, Hostiva, or HostingMatters in regards to how they handle the migration of clients either inbound or outbound?
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| Posted by Chicken, 08-26-2001, 01:17 AM | | Errrr, well yes, but that is what you want to do (manage domains). Try zoneedit with one of yours, and keep it simple.
Honestly, it has been so long since I dealt with a registrar that uses those annoying forms that I can't recall. Even NetSol has an option to change to a password protected method and I'd think you (you being the owners of the domain) could set up users (meaning you) to do modifications.
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| Posted by cactus, 08-26-2001, 01:24 AM | | If you did not keep records when the client first signed up, then as a reseller, you will not be able to access your clients' cpanel without the password. WHM for resellers only list the username accounts for editing such as upgrading/downdrading, bandwidth, space, delete/suspend account etc....
VenturesOnline & HostingMaters - No experience with them.
Hostiva - I am a reseller for them and they are using WHM/CPANEL and you would not be able to access your clients cpanel.
I highly recommend http://www.dataphorce.com in your case where you wish to gain access to your clients cpanel without the username/password as a reseller or if you did not keep records as explained earlier. They used their own reseller control panel and you are able to switch to your clients' control panel anytime to view their records such as emails settings and others without the clients' username/password directly from your reseller's control panel. I am also a reseller for them.
Host provider using WHM/CPANEL basically have similar features so it's advisable to check your requirements before signing up with them.
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