| Posted by Cyberpunk, 06-11-2001, 11:21 PM | | I am looking at starting my own hosting setup.
I have some funding secured but not enough for my plan as I have it worked out so far, does anyone have info on good places to seek help with funding in the UK and Europe?
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| Posted by Dylan, 06-12-2001, 12:06 AM | | If you ever find some funding be sure to roll some this way
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| Posted by Cyberpunk, 06-12-2001, 12:55 AM | | I'll be lucky to get enough myself if I ever find it
You in the Uk? If you are you'll know how backward attitudes are to Web Enterprise.
3 Friends already left the UK to get better jobs in Technology - 2 comms/intranet/NT and Exchange specialists to New Zealand and an A.I. developer/programmer to California!
If u are in UK though and I have some success I'll happily forward info to you though - assuming I succeed
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| Posted by Dylan, 06-12-2001, 01:07 AM | | I'm in South Africa.
I hope to incorporate my business in the US within the next 3 to 4 months.
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| Posted by Cyberpunk, 06-12-2001, 01:28 AM | | I hope it goes well for you.
Just out of curiosity, whats involved in incorporating in U.S and why/what are the advantages?
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| Posted by Dylan, 06-12-2001, 02:41 AM | | Take a look at these sites and tell me what you think.
www.privacy-solutions.com/welcome.html
Check out the Delaware and Nevada LLC/Corporation package.
www.nchinc.com
www.accountsglobal.com
www.bizfilings.com
Lots of info on the various locations to choose, with all the pros and cons.
The advantage is that everything that says for "US only" you can now make use of. Also, cheap merchant/credit card processing rates.
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| Posted by koolguru, 06-12-2001, 04:29 AM | | http://www.mycorporation.com is another one to add to the list
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| Posted by kumaran, 06-12-2001, 04:57 AM | | Hi,
Is there anything similar to the www.myCorporation.com in the UK?
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| Posted by Dylan, 06-12-2001, 07:13 AM | | kool, ThanX Man!
kumaran, do you want to incorporate your business in the UK?
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| Posted by Alan - Vox, 06-12-2001, 07:15 AM | | http://www.psybt.org.uk/ very low interest loans if your under 26 in the uk, it is also some times possible to get a grant.
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| Posted by kumaran, 06-12-2001, 07:47 AM | | Hi Madhosts
Thanx alot for the link. Sounds interresting.
Will check out later today.
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Dylan,
Yes. Why? What do you recon? US is better?
Im live in UK but am Citizen from another EU country.
Met a girl here in UK, who is doing freelance webdesign etc. and got hooked up on this idea about starting a webdesign/webhosting company.
Still researching. But wants to get started soon as possible.
Already got 2 customers (friends) listed for domain registration and hosting
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| Posted by GordonH, 06-12-2001, 10:12 AM | | Hello
I rememebr going toa bank once and getting a blank look when Itried to explainhow the business would make money.
So..... I got a reseller account, started selling annual plans which I paid for monthly, invested the profits in a dedicated server and built up from there.
When I need cash flow i use a credit card and although I have two business bank accounts I have never been in debt or met my bank manager.
The thing about borrowing from a bank is that you effectively end up with your bank manager as your business partner, and your bank manager knows **** all about the internet so.......
Stay away from banks - thats my advice.
Gordon
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| Posted by Dylan, 06-12-2001, 06:22 PM | | kumaran, I think start off in the Uk and see how things go. The easiest and cheapest startup is to get your girlfriend to register the business. I'm not too sure how and where you'll fit in, you might be able to get in as a silent partner. You'll have to get legal advice on this.
You can always incorporate your business in the US later.
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| Posted by Cyberpunk, 06-12-2001, 06:45 PM | | I had a quick look through the links, had to skim a bit though, but I will definately be looking harder later.
Initially http://www.bizfilings.com/ and http://www.mycorporation.com/ look the better ones but as i say I was just skimming.
Sorry about the delay in repling to you but I was going through lots of info about writing business plans - there should be an academic award for just learning how to go about doing one
Last edited by Cyberpunk; 06-12-2001 at 06:56 PM.
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| Posted by Cyberpunk, 06-12-2001, 06:51 PM | | Thanks for jogging my memory Madhosts, seeing your post reminded me of it.
I just sent an email asking if I would qualify still, I'm 30 but Dyslexic which is technically just inside the upper cutoff.
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| Posted by Dylan, 06-12-2001, 07:18 PM | | Cyber, the only problem with the bizfilings and mycorporation is that I would consider them half packages as they don't open a bank/merchant account for you which is often the trickiest.
The other links mentioned are full blown packages.
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| Posted by Cyberpunk, 06-12-2001, 07:32 PM | | As I said, I was just skimming, should look harder though
I'll take a better look soon.
Do you already have to have a company for those deals or can they handle startups as well?
Just thinking, fundings better over there.
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| Posted by Dylan, 06-12-2001, 07:50 PM | | No you don't already have to have a company.
As long as you're a living human being
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| Posted by Cyberpunk, 06-12-2001, 08:21 PM | | I dont feel like I'm alive with all the staring at screen I been doing though
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| Posted by GordonH, 06-13-2001, 02:56 AM | | If you live in the UK you do not need to incorporate.
We are not a Limited company.
The only advantage in being Limited is that if your business collapses the business debts belong to the business, not youpersonally so you will not lose your house etc to your creditors.
However, if you have finance from a bank, they will require you to sign away yopur limited liability in regards to any money they lend you, so basically there is no advantage.
You can set up a UK Ltd for about £30 if you do it yourself. There are a few firms doing it for you for about £90.
Gordon
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| Posted by kumaran, 06-13-2001, 05:28 AM | | Dylan
Yep. She got the client base already and all other benefits. Can always move company "office" based on the success
But agian.. Legal Advice is £££ out of the window even before Im started...
---
Gordon,
£90 ?? I cheapest offer came across was on £125 for a year.
What about accountances and Tax and stuff ??
Like book-keeping etc.?
I will contact you over the PM-system. Maybe you can help me out
Cheers,
Kumaran
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| Posted by Cyberpunk, 06-13-2001, 05:35 AM | | I would love to stay away from banks, but I dont want venture capitol and that only really leaves loans and grants as far as I can tell. I'm just at the stage of writing my business plans so I guess I'll find out soon.
I need to find 5-10k I reckon for what I've got in mind, some of which is promised already as long as I find the rest :-(
Guess i'll find out over the coming weeks.
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| Posted by GordonH, 06-13-2001, 05:42 AM | | Yes
Its a problem.
I guess I am a bit unorthodox with business matters.
I spent years in management with lareg organisations and saw all their mistakes so I just do things my own way.
When I need finance for anything I just use my credit card. It keeps the bank out of the loop, and as long as you know the cash will be coming in it can be a useful budgetting tool.
I hears that someone (it might have been the Blair Witch guy) made a movie financed through loads of gold cards......
Gordon
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| Posted by Cyberpunk, 06-13-2001, 05:58 AM | | If I got to break even and into profit I'd stay away from all the institutions myself too.
Funny isnt it, once you get to profit they fall over themselves to help
Why is this country so backward?????
Using credit cards that way, u must be building yourself an ace credit rating!
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| Posted by GordonH, 06-13-2001, 06:37 AM | | I think I am.
Its getting on for £10,000 per month going through my card and I pay the whole lot off each month.
I really need to get one of those cards where they pay you 1% back in cash for every £ you spend.
Gordon
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| Posted by Cyberpunk, 06-13-2001, 08:43 AM | | That figures more than the value of my TR7 convertible that took me 4 years to restore & rebuild!
I suppose I could sell it to raise money but I could not force myself to part with it
Would you mind telling me how you got to break even point?
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| Posted by GordonH, 06-13-2001, 09:12 AM | | Simple
I was always at breakeven.
Bought £200 worth of hosting, sold it for £400
Bought £400 hosting sold it for £800 etc
I had another source of income at the time.
Once my profits fromthe hosting got the same as my monthly salary I quit my job.
I got the idea from Alan Sugar who started his business selling car radio antennas in a market and just built it up week by week.
It means I have quite a stable business.
I could lose a lot of customers and still be viable.
Gordon
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| Posted by Cyberpunk, 06-13-2001, 09:28 AM | | How exactly did you handle billing in those days?
Hope u dont mind all the questions
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| Posted by GordonH, 06-13-2001, 09:41 AM | | I started off with Instabill and often sold annual plans which I paid for monthly.
This helped me get some working capital together.
Currently our income from monthly paying customers is enough to cover all server, freelance staff, advertising and admin prices.
Allthe profit from domains, annual plans and anything else is pure profit for salary or investment.
Gordon
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| Posted by jonny b, 06-13-2001, 09:49 AM | | thats not strictly true any more Gordon!
Ltd's have changed a bit in the last while and as a director of a company, if you have your personal bank account in the same bank as the ltd companys bank account it can be immediately seized!!
Thats one example...there are worse )
Like you say though, you dont need to be ltd....a V.A.T number does fine in most cases!
Cheers,
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| Posted by Cyberpunk, 06-13-2001, 09:51 AM | | Thats what ocurred to me, set up site & SSL, get cc processing ability with automated setup & billing software something like WHNbilling (awesome looking software can be integrated with WHM) & VO's reseller system & bill bi-annually or annually with discounts for longer commitment.
Got a big wish list for other things but that would be the core of my setup.
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| Posted by jonny b, 06-13-2001, 09:58 AM | | This shouldnt be too hard to find!
Best thing to do....if you have any bonds or policies, put them up for security on a loan for £ 10k, the bank shouldnt ask too many questions, just give them a business plan and trial balance sheet for the year ( garbage anyway when you look back 6 months later )
If you dont have those means to support a loan, why not ask a kind relative to secure it for you! And i do mean *kind*
Cheers,
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| Posted by supanames, 06-13-2001, 10:17 AM | | I need to find 5-10k I reckon for what I've got in mind, some of which is promised already as long as I find the rest :-(
I am sorry to say it but if you are insistant that you need up to £10K before even starting IMO you may not get anywhere in the industry. You should try the challenge of building the business up from scratch.
SupaNames.co.uk which was valued externally at almost £2.8M was started with a £350 advert........
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| Posted by Cyberpunk, 06-13-2001, 10:49 AM | | I have 1 relative and 1 friend who may just be willing to back me, but the problem is predicting take up and break even, but I want to be fairly sure before I ask them to commit, if I can match their commitment with borrowing, then I pay them back and I am only a financial risk to myself, no matter how confident I am I would not risk their money.
Those figures are "ideal" figures, ask for ten get five sort of thing.
As for starting with a few hundred, I'd love to but I cant even venture that yet due to circumstances otherwise I would. Plus I got no alternative income right now. Doing it properly with cc service etc, legal consultation and forming a legitemate company I just dont see how thats possible anymore.
Are you willing to elaborate on how you did it supanames?
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| Posted by GordonH, 06-13-2001, 10:49 AM | | Jonny
You do not need a VAT number to start trading.
You only *must* register for VAT if your trading within the European Union is over the VAT limit.
If your supplies are coming from outwith the EU and you are trading mainly outside the EU there is little point in voluntary registration.
Gordon
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| Posted by kumaran, 06-13-2001, 10:50 AM | | supanames,
You are kidding? £350?? And now worth £2.8M ???
Wow!!
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| Posted by GordonH, 06-13-2001, 10:54 AM | | I would agree that building it up from scratch makes a much more stable business.
Its also more fun - you have control over the whole business and can change strategy to meed demand without discussing it with anyone else.
I think thats why I like being a sole trader.
It has more risks but it gives you control over what happens.
I just think that building up from a small investement is more business like than going to the bank and doing all that spreadsheet stuff.
It won't make you friends in the chamber of commerce......but it might make you a living.
Anyone can make a nice looking business plan, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
I put all my efforts into running the business effectively and pay people (mainly accountants) to clear up the "mess" I leave behind.
Gordon
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| Posted by kumaran, 06-13-2001, 10:59 AM | | GordonH,
Whats the VAT limit? What happends when, like if I choose to go with a Service Provider in UK but sells to customers from outside EU?
Also, can you get accounts with people like WorldPay if you don't have any VAT or not registered as a Ltd Company?
---
Supanames,
Yup. Would be great, if you would be willing to 'elaborate' on how you did it?
Cheers,
Kumaran
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| Posted by jonny b, 06-13-2001, 11:00 AM | | I never said you did!
Getting business from corporate customers without one would be futile though....
" Sorry, what ? You've no V.A.T number and no Company number "
Click.....as financial / IT director smells a rat
Its a lot harder to prove yourself without one....
anyway...if you're purchasing your own equipment etc its not very practical to trade without one!
You can register for V.A.T anytime but why not get the V.A.T back on your hardware investment to start with?
Cheers,
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| Posted by supanames, 06-13-2001, 11:09 AM | | VAT limit for the UK is £52,000 (turnover) or there abouts.
How did we do it with Supanames?
1) Shear hard work, (I still work 15 - 20 hour days)
2) Social life destroyed!
3) Starting small and on a reseller account and slowly saving up the money for our own servers - we now have space for around 40 of our 4U servers in London
4) Offering something unique (many argue that SupaNames is the best value UK host)
5) Spending a lot on getting our name out there (magazine advertising)
6) Offering customers more for their money
7) Luck - Press coverage from a scrappy press release I put together helped enormously
Thats about it. We have had one or two large PLCs interested in buying the company (hence the need for a valuation)
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| Posted by Cyberpunk, 06-13-2001, 11:26 AM | | How did you handle your billing when you started?
This is the part I'm struggling with, I want to do proper cc billing from start and I just cant seem to get low prices for starting worked out.
social life i can give up, usually goes out the window when i get into work I enjoy anyway, hard work I got plenty capability for (at least its not a cost as such). Reseller is what I got worked out to start with.
I just cant seem to refine startup prices as low as I would like.
You actually planning to sell? If so I hope you get top price.
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| Posted by supanames, 06-13-2001, 11:35 AM | | I am not planning to sell - I love developing the company and dealing with customers - I have turned down all offers so far and will continue to do so! I am not in this for getting rich quick or selling out
Right...billing...
I started off by getting the company we were reselling for to handle all Credit Card transactions. This has major pitfalls (like non - payment)
I would recommend Netbanx.com - we still use them to this day and setting up with them prices about £150 or so. They accept pretty much anyone to be honest - you should not have a problem there.
If you want email me at barnaby.lashbrooke@supanames.co.uk and we can discuss ideas and whatever.
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| Posted by Cyberpunk, 06-13-2001, 11:46 AM | | I will email.
I really appreciate the offer.
I got the feeling you werent considering selling. Im just about to take a look at netbanx.
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| Posted by kipper, 08-10-2001, 01:07 PM | | If anyone has some funding requests, please pass them on to me i'd be interesting in hearing any ideas or venture.
We are part of the IARNA plc group, so are looking for ideas and good business plans.
Rob
rob@tendead.co.uk
tendead.co.uk
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| Posted by Studio-51, 08-10-2001, 05:59 PM | | Hi,
Just thought I would add my 10 pence worth...
First thing I would say it to avoid taking out loans etc , ESPECIALLY from friends and family. On starting Studio 51 I had access to a few offers, which could have helped, but I dont like mixing buisness and family/friends as if it goes tits up...
I think your best bet would be to start out small and build up, as aiming to buy an 'out of the box' company it abit tricky and, this may sound abit wierd, abit detached. Like I doubt I could work for another company 20hours a days as I am willingly and with an insane amount of motivation as i am with Studio 51.
I dont know the situation about IT startups, but with the looming recession, or at least the economy slowing, various people (esp. in london i note) are getting worried about jobs, let alone investing.
I hope it all takes off, and if you get funded ensure you keep the company no working for 10% and making other people rich.
The best thing that kept in my mind is Anita Roddick from the Body Shop , she needed money to start up, so sold 20% of the company for 2 grand. That bloke who lent her the money is now a millionaire off her work.
cheers,
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| Posted by kipper, 08-11-2001, 10:04 AM | | Hi Robert
Very true and you make some valid points but one point has always stuck in my mind, and that is 10% of something is worth more than 100% of **** all.
I got told that a long while back and it did fair justice. Being too proud to take help or financial assistance CAN be a downfall. Of course its much better to build the company organically and not to take any external investment, but life as it is doesnt always let that happen.
I had to take investment to keep my company running a couple of years ago and now even though i own much less, i still take it on board that this is MY company and it's now a worthwhile thing.
But i like the family thing - certainly dont go down that route, can break families up, best keep things seperate.
Kip
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