| Posted by laiming, 03-31-2017, 08:31 PM | |
Hi all.
I wanted to give everyone a heads-up regarding Green Geeks.
Green Geeks offers an "unconditional 30 day money-back guarantee." A week after I requested the refund, they processed it. But, they said they were going to keep $15. Despite their ads not qualifying the "unconditional 30 day money-back guarantee", they pointed to the Terms of Service stating that the money-back guarantee did not apply to setup fees.
I won't go into whether or not excluding the setup fee from the unconditional 30 day money-back guarantee -- hidden deep in the Terms of Service -- is fair (they even state "no hidden fees").
But they never charged me a setup fee! The signup page shows that you get a $15 savings by pre-paying for more than a month, as the setup fee is waived ("Qualified plans receive free setup").
So beware. I cannot comment on their service (aside from the 20 hours for a response to the billing query, and 7-day time to respond to the refund request). However, I have grave concerns about a company that plays games by offering free setup as an inducement to get you to pre-pay for a year and then tries to keep $15 for a non-existent setup fee during an unconditional money-back guarantee.
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| Posted by Sparrow-Sean, 03-31-2017, 08:36 PM | |
Honestly, at the end of the day:
It is within their terms of service, this is why you need to read it before you hit the submit button. I don't sympathise with people who don't read or adhere to what they are signing up for, it is your responsibility to ensure you do your due diligence and you can't just come here and blame them for something that was your mistake.
However, in this case if what you're saying to be accurate then being a waived fee it should be refunded as normal.
Last edited by Sparrow-Sean; 03-31-2017 at 08:41 PM.
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| Posted by HostLeet, 03-31-2017, 08:39 PM | |
So you never actually got to use their service then? What prompted you to ask for a refund so quick? j/w
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| Posted by laiming, 03-31-2017, 08:51 PM | |
I see this on the home page, so I did not carefully look at the terms, 15 dollars set fee, this is not hidden costs Well?
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| Posted by laiming, 03-31-2017, 08:53 PM | |
I was found in the settings do not meet my expectations, so I will not use
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| Posted by Sparrow-Sean, 03-31-2017, 08:59 PM | |
No, why, because it is disclosed to you on the checkout page - if this was undisclosed then yes. You knew very well you were paying the fee when you signed up.
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| Posted by dedicatedheaven-Dan, 04-01-2017, 04:35 AM | |
May I ask - The settings? What made you look at the packages in the first place and sign up then?
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| Posted by MechanicWeb-shoss, 04-01-2017, 05:40 AM | |
It does seem there's more to the story. If OP signed up for a package and then says the settings did not meet their expectation - were the specs not listed on the website?
Regardless, if it's an unconditional money back guarantee, and then an amount is cut from the refund, it is not unconditional at all. They could have been more upfront regarding their policy.
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| Posted by LJSHost, 04-01-2017, 06:11 AM | |
I have to agree with the OP on this one, sure the setup fee is in the terms (who has setup fees in 2017 anyway)
Not much you can really do about it OP, I doubt a charge back with your payment provider would work as the fee is hidden away but still displayed.
A 30 day money back guarantee should be exactly as stated unless the service was abused with malware and spam.
I would get conformation on exactly what the refund policy covers before you pick another provider.
All the best to you
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| Posted by laiming, 04-01-2017, 08:22 AM | |
I use Green Web Hosting for 1 year of service, the other is not much more to set up the rest of the service including domain name
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| Posted by laiming, 04-01-2017, 08:40 AM | |
Its terms of service, and did not set out to charge the set fee of $ 15 this matter, only after I made a refund to say that this fee
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| Posted by Forward Web, 04-01-2017, 05:46 PM | |
Was this for a shared web hosting account, VPS or Reseller? Just trying to make sense of the set-up fee and why they are charging a set-up fee to begin with.
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| Posted by laiming, 04-01-2017, 06:16 PM | |
I use the web hosting account
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| Posted by Lakjin, 04-01-2017, 06:33 PM | |
I always love the "but it is in the ToS" response in regards to service fees*. Legally, putting in the ToS covers your ass, sure. Ethically, however, it is equivalent to being a scum and every scum host should be called out for this behavior. It is 2017 and there is far too much competition out there to let scum hosts survive.
*Penalties are different (such as penalty for spam cleanup) and those belong in ToS in my opinion. Service fees? Nope.
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| Posted by kpmedia, 04-02-2017, 01:40 AM | |
Did the OP get a "free" domain name? That's what I'm not seeing here.
- If yes, $15 is fair. Take domain elsewhere, it's yours.
- If no, then say so.
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| Posted by laiming, 04-02-2017, 05:12 PM | |
I use my own domain name and do not use the free domain name service provided by Green Geeks
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| Posted by laiming, 04-02-2017, 05:16 PM | |
Green Geeks still insists on not refunding this $ 15, and is not responding to my letter, try to pay attention to this, this is not a 30 day unconditional full refund, he will charge you with the so-called installation fee, and the terms of service did not write to install How much is the money, all of them are self-identified
My English is not good, sorry, I hope everyone can understand
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| Posted by IH-Jake, 04-03-2017, 12:53 AM | |
Hard to understand the setup fee for a shared account... But missing out to read the TOS was a mistake from the customer as this is very important particularly when it comes to hosting companies as many would be following the policies enforced by the management without having the privilege to provide exceptions.
If the customer signed up for a longer period to avoid set up fee and if requested for cancellation it would be considered as a monthly singed by a few providers. The best option would be to escalate OPs request and wait to hear from their higher officials.
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| Posted by Josh-D, 04-03-2017, 02:21 AM | |
Hello,
I'm sorry to hear your experience was subpar with us. GreenGeeks takes customer service seriously, it's the core foundation and why our business has survived over the last 9 years!. If you can send me a private message with your ticket information I'd be more than happy to review and have our quality assurance team assist you.
In general, GreenGeeks does charge a $15 setup fee billed directly on month-to-month hosting terms and included into the prepaid costs when signing up. While GreenGeeks doesn't manually create individual cPanel accounts these costs help cover our onboarding expenses ranging from fraud protection, license costs for third party services included in our hosting and more (some of our proprietary application layers, development etc.). This charge is held in accordance with our refund policies.
In regards to our refund policies, unfortunately, it seems @laiming misunderstood "30 Day Money Back Guarantee" with "unconditional full refund" which is not the case as outlined in our Terms of Service - accepted during signup - and covered in our presales knowledgebase articles. Our policies are in line with standard refund policies: Service Addons, Domains (Registration, Transfer, Renewal) & Account Setups are nonrefundable. Remaining balances are refundable should the Cancellation Request be placed within 30 days of the customer's original hosting purchase. Refunds are issued within 3-5 days of verifying the intention to cancel with our quality assurance team.
I look forward to receiving an update from the OP and getting this over with our Quality Assurance team to square things away.
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| Posted by whmcsguru, 04-03-2017, 02:56 AM | |
So, let's see if we get this straight, mkay?
You signed up for service, without reading the TOS, but blindly accepted them.
When you cancelled, you were suddenly appalled to find that these terms you agreed to included fees?
Sorry, this is all on you, not them
Why these fees? Because they can. That's really all you need to know. Is the company suddenly supposed to change their mind because of your attempt to trash them publicly? No.
Anyone who's ever dealt with the hosting industry knows that the first month or so is trying for the business gaining the client.confusion, transfer issues, etc. a $15 charge is pretty nominal
That's not even taking into account fees assessed TO the host by providers such as merchants. In some cases, these are reversed. In many, however (specifically CC providers), not so much.
At the end of the day, it's important to understand what you're getting into before this starts. I will typically side with the client in cases like this, but with this level of ignorance, sorry, no
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| Posted by YardenSadeHive, 04-03-2017, 04:00 AM | |
I'm sorry guys but this attitude of "you did not read the TOS, you are 100% to blame" is something I can't agree with.
Part of us giving services to clients is to make sure they easily understand why they signed for, and make them happy, even when they leave.
Being "right" legally does not equal to happy clients, so I think this is pretty much useless argument unless we were at the court of justice where said client is suing the provider for 15$
And I am sorry but advertising in the client's face "full refund policy" when it is not actually the case for whatever legitimate reasons, while technically true is sort of misleading or at the very best unclear.
If someone is paying you only 15$ and you are not going to refund any of it... one could understand how a client can be pissed off.
Our job is to attract clients and make them happy, not to prove them wrong for not reading the small letters, this is just my humble opinion.
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| Posted by whmcsguru, 04-03-2017, 04:07 AM | |
Keeping the client happy is good, but at the point where they're leaving, they're no longer the client. They're an aggressive individual who chooses to attack rather than admit they were wrong. This is precisely one of those moments. Starting a thread , trying to bash someone did nothing wrong is just aggressive.
Terms are there for a reason. It's on the client to ask questions about said terms BEFORE agreeing to them, not make assumptions, or accept without reading.
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| Posted by YardenSadeHive, 04-03-2017, 04:23 AM | |
Well, can't argue there.
I guess I am used too much to that type of behavior so it does not strike me as odd.
I do agree that this type of aggressive behavior is counter productive for the client and could be handled in a more calm manner.
However I still personally think if you take the effort to post a "full refund" policy you might want to be more clear about what does that mean in the exact same place. that is just me tho.. I do not wish to tell other people how to manage their own businesses.
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| Posted by JustinT, 04-03-2017, 02:36 PM | |
I double that!
People say the OP should read ToS, maybe, but why he should do it if he see "moneyback guarantee, no hidden fees"? I would have understand that if it was with simple asterisk * at the end. That would raise a warning signal for the OP and he would read ToS in that case.
For me, it doesn't matter if the client is asking for a refund or not he is still my client. I would have ask him what was wrong with the package and would try to create a custom one for him if possible. Also, if the client is leaving it doesn't mean he won't recommend the host to someone. Now for sure he won't. Was it worth $15? ...
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| Posted by mjfleming, 04-03-2017, 02:49 PM | |
Oh yes charging someone penalty for spam cleanup is ethnical "but it's in the tos" service fee is not... that's some form of moral relativism you're practicing there imo
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| Posted by Lakjin, 04-03-2017, 03:57 PM | |
Sorry, penalties are not the same as fees. Fees should not be hidden in ToS. Penalties belong there. Try again.
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| Posted by mjfleming, 04-03-2017, 04:03 PM | |
Sorry, penalties for spam cleanup makes you sound like the same kind of dishonest host you're ragging on. I've never heard of this before in my life..!
But I guess it's not my place to tell you how to run your business. I just see no real qualitative difference between putting a setup fee or spam removal "fee" (call it what it is) into the TOS. At the end of the day, anyone who enters into a contract without reading said contract is asking for trouble.
I don't think there's anything wrong with putting things into the TOS. As it is said, the TOS is not to be bypassed without careful inspection, anyone who does, does so at their own peril. But for you to say a setup fee is somehow wrong, but a spam cleanup "fee" is permissible- that's laughable to me. I'd be more interested in helping the client clean up asap for both of our sake rather than trying to squeeze a couple more bucks out of him...
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| Posted by Madbunny, 04-03-2017, 07:28 PM | |
In USA or some other countries, but in EU ToS isnt legal at all. To be considered as something "legal" then it must be written in a way to not offer any side any advantage and no "small print" (or burried in ToS) for anything what could damage the client:
I could go on but this should be enough to make things a little more clear. Now think of the language used in most hosting companies ToS, limits and/or fees/penalties buried in wall of text, hard to understand terms, misleading like "full refind" on front page but claiming some expenses in ToS... and it will become clear why most of them cant hold the ground in front of the law.
Not only this, all the banks, CC originated within EU or even PP for EU citizens must operate under same law. Just so you know.
TL;DR - By EU law almost all ToS (for what i know/saw) are unlawful, but they are perfectly fine for US. So can we finally stop talking about ToS like something god-like, because the world isnt US and ToS isnt legal document or contract.
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| Posted by mjfleming, 04-03-2017, 08:05 PM | |
With all due respect you should check that with a barrister. I think the litmus test for "fairness" is a hundredfold more complex than what you're presenting here, and whats more if the TOS is fair, it's enforceable in the EU.
Though, nobody here is a lawyer, I question your point just on the basis that every major website catering to people in the EU have TOS.
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| Posted by laiming, 04-03-2017, 08:53 PM | |
After a few days of processing, Green Geeks returned my $ 15, and I did not use any value-added services such as service plugins, domain names (registration, transfer, renewals), so I do not know which install costs Thank you for your advice on this matter, this time let me know, after I have to look at the terms of service, not just to see the first page of the promotional activities.
Last edited by laiming; 04-03-2017 at 09:05 PM.
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| Posted by Madbunny, 04-03-2017, 10:39 PM | |
You are right, no one of us is a lawyer but for the same reasons i already mentioned and difference in EU - US law, for several years i stop working with anyone outside EU and switched to actual contracts. Not because i'm so good at interpreting the law, but because my lawyer gave me this advice. From that point no more fraudulent chargebacks, incomplete payments, stealing my IP and all other nonsense what you can find with almost any online business and their ToS (or whatever you want to call it).
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| Posted by Lakjin, 04-04-2017, 12:24 AM | |
Critical thinking is hard for some people, I understand that. I don't hold it against you.
For what it is worth, I am not a host -- only a customer. You, on the other hand, appear to be one and clearly see no problem in hiding fees in ToS. Therefore, this debate is moot.
Best of luck.
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| Posted by DewlanceHosting, 04-04-2017, 12:38 AM | |
Good to hear that you got your refund, I think this is not good to do not refund setup fees. If you provide money-back guarantee then refund 100% money else do not provide money-back guarantee or write that setup fees will be not refunded even If it will be waived-off.
However its not so bad practice, I mean both are right at their point(Client & hosting company).
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| Posted by mjfleming, 04-04-2017, 01:26 AM | |
Hmm. You seem to have completely missed my point.
Attached Thumbnails
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| Posted by kpmedia, 04-04-2017, 01:30 AM | |
I'm very pro-consumer, and find hidden gotchas in ToS (fine print) to largely be the actions of unethical a-holes. I've long warned others again software and services that do this.
And all this "you didn't read" stuff is nonsense. Why? Because most of the language and length of these documents make them unreadable!
I despise this Millennial (kiddie) attitude.
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| Posted by whmcsguru, 04-04-2017, 03:04 AM | |
As is any smart business individual. However, it's important to understand that this isn't a "consumer", or a "customer". This is someone who simply wants to complain. It's for people like this that fees exist, honestly... Consumers that like making trouble for businesses, and raising stink everywhere, trying to damage them however they can.
Then don't agree to it, end of story... I happened to take a look through Green Geek's docs, and they're actually quite readable. If you don't have the time, or can't be bothered to read them, great, then don't agree and move the hell on. Find somewhere else to take your business.
These docs have to cover a TON of ground, and people are going to throw a fit, find room to quibble about anything, and then suddenly complain when the docs are moved, or updated. It's a lose/lose. Those docs are there to protect the business, not the consumer, because, the consumer doesn't give two bits about the business.
Except, it's neither kiddie, nor Millenial
When agreeing to these terms, you give the business permission to do what is in their terms. End of statement, Case closed, move on.
Now, will they? Probably not. If you approach this with the proper attitude, humility and respect, then you'll win this.
What is the 'Millenial attitude' is what we're seeing by the OP here, the 'social justice' garbage, the "I'ma throw a fit because I got charged for something I agreed to" garbage. Some of this, yes, it's warranted, however, for the most part, not so much.
There's a ton we don't know about here, there's a ton that's not being disclosed. For example, there's no $15 fee in the terms. If that's referring to setup fees which were waived because of multi-monthly payments, then, that's legit. It's bad, it's a grey area, but legit. It doesn't matter how many months were paid for in advance, it's very clearly spelled out that setup fees are not refunded. Hosting fees are, but setup fees, not so much.
In my case? I'm not sure how I'd handle it. This 'customer' has done nothing but rant here. I've had to deal with people like this, myself. In most cases? It's best to just pay them off and shut them up, but that just rewards bad behavior. Kind of like bribing that spoiled rotten child in the middle of a tantrum because he can't get his way
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| Posted by Madbunny, 04-04-2017, 05:11 AM | |
You didnt.
Wrong.
Maybe yours.
It is not.
We cant.
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| Posted by mjfleming, 04-04-2017, 06:44 AM | |
It seems fairly straightforward to me?
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| Posted by whmcsguru, 04-04-2017, 08:45 AM | |
And herein lies the crux of the whole matter. You won't move on. The TOS are clear in this case. You have no idea now business should be fun, or what the real story is, but damn that business for trying to recoup losses. Damn them straight to hell!!!
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| Posted by whmcsguru, 04-04-2017, 08:45 AM | |
Precisely. If you don't like it, don't order.
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| Posted by OpenInternet-Vince, 04-04-2017, 09:52 AM | |
If the setup fee isn't listed on the invoice then they can't legally say it was charged "part of the hosting terms".
It's been proven many times a TOS doesn't mean it is legal. A valid contract means both party MUST understand the terms completely.
This is pure BS.
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| Posted by Server Management, 04-06-2017, 08:00 PM | |
ToS are firmly legal within the EU, thousands of businesses and companies use such things on a daily basis, obviously there is laws.
ToS is a legal document and it does make part or all of a contract if needed.
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